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Greg Buck, PushPress: Launch.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Beautiful. I got some people jumping in.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Nice. I see some names I recognize over there. Eduardo. I don't know if you can see it. Max and Rachel. We spoke to those guys yesterday. Good to see you guys. Thanks for jumping on.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, see you guys.
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Beatrice Jin: I see the names here.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: We got Miggy from the Push Press team.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Beautiful.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Hey guys, we're gonna give everyone a few minutes just to jump in.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Give everyone a few buffer if they're coming back from lunch and whatnot.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: As you jump in, if you want to put in the chat.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: What gym you train at, or what gym you own.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: How long you've been training, that'd be great, or how long you've had your gym
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Greg Buck, PushPress: So we can get a kind of a read of the room. We'd love that
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Beautiful.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Still rolling in. Great.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Thanks for joining us, Leah. That's great.
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Beatrice Jin: Shorties. I know. Sora trains there. She comes down to my open mouth like once a month at least.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Nice. Great to see the connection.
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Beatrice Jin: No.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Nice, a women's kickboxing program, that's awesome.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: I went to North Dakota once for a CrossFit competition. It was a pretty cool town, actually. I was pleasantly surprised.
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Beatrice Jin: I know one person from North Dakota.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Yeah, sure.
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Beatrice Jin: No.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Nice Moto, push press partner, opening up in Chicago in October. We're excited to see them continue their build out.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Shout out Rachel and Matt.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Eduardo's in here from Academy.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Out in California.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Beautiful.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Do it about one more minute, guys, and we'll kick off.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Slide share.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Our new people jumping in, go ahead, drop what gym you train at, or gym you own in the chat, and kind of where you're from, just so we can see who we got in here.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Good.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: I'm sorry.
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Beatrice Jin: Oh, cool, Rachel, I just saw you're opening up in Chicag
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Beatrice Jin: My parents are from Chicago, so hopefully I'll get to, we'll get to train.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Okay.
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Beatrice Jin: No.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Welcome, Saki. Blue belt in jujitsu, black belt in Aikido. Very cool.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Austin Women's Boxing Club. Awesome. Welcome, Alex.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Give it about one more minute, and we'll kick off here.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: True.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: What's wrong?
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Beautiful.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: So, thanks for joining us today, guys. Super excited to be here with my friend Beatrice.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: I followed Beatrice on social media before I got the pleasure to meet her, last year at Jiu-Jitsu Con. If you don't follow her content, she's really great. Great perspectives around training, specifically in the women's space, but also running a gym.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: And then she also has a lot of really fun, funny content as well. But we're super excited here at Push Press to host Beatrice today to talk about how to build a thriving women's jiu-jitsu program. Without further ado, I'll give it away to Beatrice.
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Beatrice Jin: Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you everybody for coming. I noticed there's like a lot of women in the chat, so I really appreciate you guys like coming to listen to my perspective. I will say like, you know, I know a lot of people who signed up, they are running successful women's programs. So if anyone wants to jump in with like comments or questions like in the middle or something, I would love to like go back and forth. I would like less to talk straight for 30 to 40 minutes. So please like keep the chat active.
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Beatrice Jin: if you guys, you know, are feeling compelled to do that. But just, you know, a little bit about me outside of social media, you know, I think maybe, like.
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Beatrice Jin: I'm doing this seminar because I'm more visible. But, you know, besides that, at my academy, I'm pretty much managing most of everything, like the website, email, text, social media. That's like all me. I've been teaching co-ed classes for the past several years since I was a Purple Belt, so since 2020. So it's been like six years of teaching co-ed classes and then also hosted over 250 women's open mats since 2023.
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Beatrice Jin: every Friday, every Sunday. You know, they're not always big, and sometimes they're huge, you know, between 2 and 30 people, but very consistently for the past 3 years. So I think that's one of the, like, big successes that I feel like I've had.
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Beatrice Jin: And then, yeah, basically just part of operating the gym since a white belt. And if you know me, you probably know me from, like, being the whiteboard lady or from competing, but I would say, like, from the day to day, my actual, like, job is to run a successful gym, hopefully. So, that's what I'm here to talk about.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: And Beatrice, ever humbled. Beatrice is a very good black belt competitor, even though she's very humble in nature.
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Beatrice Jin: Thank you.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Perfect, you're.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, well, so yeah, so actually I wanted to talk about that because a lot of people who open gyms, especially jujitsu gyms, I feel like the culture is that, you know, you become a world champion and then you open a gym or like, you know, you win something and then you open a gym. And I feel like, especially in social media, that's like the path that everyone sees that everyone else follows. But that's obviously not necessarily true. And, you know, I think like competing for me, it.
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Beatrice Jin: basically taught me that I need to commit to long-term growth. You know, I need to fail a million times before I actually succeed. And then, you know, you just have to keep showing up when you don't feel like it. And so those are the things that I try to take away from competition. But in reality we know, like some of our best teachers, are not maybe the best competitors, you know. There's only one best person in the world, right? And I'm sure not everyone here wants to learn specifically from Gordon Ryan or John Danaher. You know we want to
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Beatrice Jin: learn from people that we like and people who care about us.
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Beatrice Jin: That's just, like, a caveat I wanted to, put out, and then…
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Beatrice Jin: also, like, you know, competing, for me, it serves, like, as a way for me to have confidence in what I'm teaching, but it doesn't mean that it makes me a good teacher, you know? It just kind of, like, gave me something that I could fall back on and know that I'm not, like, pulling stuff out of YouTube and just, like, you know, passing it along.
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Beatrice Jin: And of course, it helps you guide other competitors. But for people who don't know what your martial art is, whether it's kickboxing or jujitsu or Aikido, for 99% of people, there is literally no difference between third place default podium at Grappling Industries and winning Black Belt Worlds.
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Beatrice Jin: And so it's really important to just like, you know, keep that in mind.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah. And that's why I listed that as the last thing about my qualities, because I think it like, like, you know, at the end of the day doesn't really matter.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Yeah. Yeah, my background comes from the CrossFit space, and we see a lot of that in CrossFit as well, where you have the high-level guy or gal who either is maybe done competing or did their run, and it's like, okay, how do I cash in? Well, I know CrossFit, or I know jiu-jitsu, it's time to open a gym. So, I love that perspective of.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: just because you're a high-level practitioner doesn't mean you're a great coach. You definitely can be, but one does not beget the other.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, yeah.
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Beatrice Jin: And then the other thing is, you know, I think some people, I feel like treat.
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Beatrice Jin: building a women's program separately, like, something that they can do in six weeks, or they host a women's open mat every month, and, you know, it'll just, like, turn into something. But I think the women's program is part of the gym, right? And so, if you're trying to grow female leaders, it's, like, it takes as much time as it
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Beatrice Jin: takes to grow a male leader, which is, like, 5 to 10 years, getting someone from white to black belt, unless you're gonna, you know, hire from outside, and that's, like, kind of a different… different story. And, you know, just like, the rest of the gym, you know, the culture of the women's group is different in every gym, and so you want to see if, like.
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Beatrice Jin: I don't know if some girls like to go out and party versus some girls who like to just eat food and watch movies. There's different kind of cultures, right? So you kind of have to decide and figure that out over time. People are going to come, people are going to go, and then the culture kind of becomes this amoeba-ish thing, and it's going to follow its own path.
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Beatrice Jin: have to allow it to happen like that. It's not something you can just set in stone in 6 weeks and, like, you know, have it happen for you.
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Beatrice Jin: And then, you know, it's gonna feel harder because there's less women in general who, like, come through the door, which we'll also talk about, you know, marketing and stuff.
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Beatrice Jin: So it feels like you gotta cling on to each one, and every woman is part of defining that little group. But I think, you know, as time goes on, as years go on, as more women pass through your doors, then the culture will kind of form itself. You know, I've probably had
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Beatrice Jin: you know, my women's open mouth's probably way over 300 to 400 women, like, come through the doors of the gym, right? But the people who, like.
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Beatrice Jin: stay over time, and, you know, stay for years, or one year, or two year. You know, they leave their mark, and that's how the culture is, like, actually formed.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, and so, when we talk about, like, how to, like, treat someone when they come into the, to their first day of class, you know, there's a lot of, like, checkmark things to do, which is, like, you know, you know, have them pair up with somebody and,
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Beatrice Jin: I don't know, try to even think of, like, you know, like, show them where things are, make sure they don't get crushed by, like, some massive person, but I would say, like, the thing that I remember the most myself, and when I talk to other people, especially women, is, like, how they actually felt when they walked through those doors, right? Like,
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Beatrice Jin: I remember when I walked through the door of my 1st jiu-jitsu class, I saw like 2 girls ran up to me. They threw a gi at me. They were like, you're a woman, you have to stay. And then I remember like learning a single leg and like nothing else about the class, you know. But I remember how I felt, which was like someone wanted me to be there, and so I stayed not just because.
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Beatrice Jin: I liked jiu-jitsu, which I, like, kind of did. I mean, you don't really know, it's, like, kind of a weird sport, but I felt like I should go back because those people wanted me to go back, you know, like, almost like you're, like, helping someone else by going back.
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Beatrice Jin: that's, like, kind of the feeling that I try to evoke is just, like, you know, when someone goes to jiu-jitsu, not only are they getting something out of it, but they also feel like they're contributing
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Beatrice Jin: And a lot of like good relationships are formed by when you, when someone wants to help the other person, not just like receiving something, you know. So I know that's like not like as like businessy as maybe people expect, but I feel like in general when you develop good relationships, which ultimately like a lot of martial arts gyms are about, that's kind of like what you have to do. And I put Jesse's story here. It's just when I was visiting another gym, it's…
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Beatrice Jin: It was called BJJ Lab at that time.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, I just remember I was a purple belt at the time, and Jessie Swanson was a black belt, and I also remember her, like, rushing towards me, and she was like, you're a purple belt woman, I can't wait to train with you, come train with me, you know, and that's when I really felt like.
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Beatrice Jin: you know, I was not… I did not, like, get an inch on her, but I felt like I was, like, contributing in a way by being there, and that feeling has stayed with me for a long time, and whenever I see, like, good training partners who are women, I try to make sure that they
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Beatrice Jin: They feel that way because, well, I want them to stay and, you know, I like wanna be friends with them. So yeah, so that's kind of like the vibe. Yeah, this is the vibe. I think we'll get into more like detailed things later.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Cool. Yeah, I think a big thing that, it's really easy to lose track of as a…
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Greg Buck, PushPress: a more seasoned practitioner or gym owner is, it's really hard to put yourself in the shoes of that day one person. And something we talk a lot about on the business side of things is, when you come into a new gym or a new space, whether it's jiu-jitsu, CrossFit, karate.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: boxing, you don't know the norms of that culture yet. So, like, the first thing that person is so afraid of is doing something that makes them look dumb, or, like, they don't know it's happening. So, like, as a gym owner, or a manager, or a member of a gym.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Being open and honest to those people, like, hey, you know, we use the foot wash before we go onto the mat, like, no shoes on the mat, which to us is just…
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Oh, that's how everyone does it, but not every gym is the same, and if you've never done it before, you don't know, you know, so rather than, like, shame those people if they break those.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Those norms we've already built into our gym and our culture that we know because we've been there for X amount of years, you know, explaining those things to those people on the front end or, like you said, pairing them with an individual who's been around a while who we know will give them a good training experience on their first day is huge. Yeah, that's great.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, okay, let me move this over. All right, so let's go back one step. I guess not.
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Beatrice Jin: It's not that I would have…
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Beatrice Jin: an amazing order. But okay, going back a step, how to get people in the door in the 1st place. I thought these were like pretty straightforward. But hopefully, you know, we'll just review it because a lot of the times like marketing and business is just like being reminded of the basics. Right? So like for for getting women through the door, you know, on social media, you just want women at the gym doing the exact same thing as a men are doing right there. They're not just training. They're also competing.
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Beatrice Jin: They're also at the social events. They're laughing and talking like everybody else. And people need to know that. They won't know that unless you post it, right? No one's gonna like pop their head in the gym and check before they do that class.
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Beatrice Jin: visible female leadership, if you have it, you know, I'm gonna say this a couple times, because not everyone has, like, a higher level female who can be, like, teaching necessarily a whole class, but maybe they can be, like, a big part of helping an intro class, or, like, they're, like, you know, if they want to be, you know, not always.
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Beatrice Jin: Does the woman want to take on the responsibility of welcoming all the other women? But when they want to be, you know, give them a place that's more visible.
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Beatrice Jin: Just so that actually we'll get into this later. But yeah, visible female leadership, other things that are small but mean a lot to women, you know, equipping the bathrooms with feminine products. So, you know, they don't have to ask if they're like missing something, you know, hair ties, just having everything smell nice. Everyone in the picture should just just be normal.
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Beatrice Jin: I feel like I really hope that that's like a basic thing. But you know, there are a lot of gyms who like
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Beatrice Jin: Post, like, shirtless pictures of people, like, sweating on each other, and you have to think for, like, a beginner who knows nothing about jiu-jitsu, like, that just may not feel like…
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Beatrice Jin: the thing that they're really looking for, right? Like, a lot of people are looking for a workout, they're learning how to, like, pick up a new skill, not necessarily to be smashed in the face in side control, regardless of how cool that is. One marketing thing that I learned very early on was, like.
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Beatrice Jin: It does not matter how cool the sweep or submission you're doing is, you gotta just post people, post pictures of people smiling. You know, they literally, they can be sitting next to each other, not doing jiu-jitsu. We want smiling faces, men, in this case, men and women, right?
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Greg Buck, PushPress: That's great advice.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, yeah. So yeah, the same thing as social media. You want. You know, men and women talking to the to the camera.
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Beatrice Jin: Okay, cool.
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Beatrice Jin: hopefully more common sense on this slide. Authentic is in right like you really want to make real friendships. Not everyone is meant to be at your gym. You know my gym. Our logo is like a yin and yang. We've got dragons and snakes around the logo like it's very like
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Beatrice Jin: zen kind of focus on technique kind of gym, and if you want to rage and fight, like, I know that that's not necessarily… my gym is not necessarily that place for some people, you know? And so, one of the metrics that I like to use is, like, you know, can I, like, make friends with this person? And it's not necessarily that
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Beatrice Jin: You can judge an affiliate by their bathroom.
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Beatrice Jin: It's not necessarily that
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Beatrice Jin: you have to make friends with everybody, you know. There is like some scientific limit where, like, you can only, like, know, like, 150 names, and then, like, your brain starts to, like, just, like, fry out. But, like, you know, I think if I, like, kind of, like, think that I want to hang out with someone outside the gym, then I kind of would kind of get, like, a vibe check there.
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Beatrice Jin: And for a lot of people, right, like, it's not about, like, can I do this or not? Because eventually they're going to learn how to do it. And a white belt, like, they don't know they can do it, you know? Like, they're getting crushed for, like, two years, maybe, you know? So, it's not necessarily about being confident about something, although they're going to build that over time. But from
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Beatrice Jin: they're, like, at least on the way to belonging into a group, which is what most people, like, really want out of life, you know?
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Beatrice Jin: like, I'm sure a lot of people could go their whole lives without being a black belt, but they they want to go through their life like belonging to a group. And so, you know, you'll see a lot of people are very reluctant to leave their gyms on good or bad terms, and it's because of the relationships they formed. It's not because they're attached to the logo, you know. It's not because they already bought the gi like. That's not why, you know. It's because of the relationships they had. So
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Beatrice Jin: I think… you know
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Beatrice Jin: And the last point says, don't be evil like we don't want to make friends just because we want to make money right? But like you would, you do want to make friends with your customers to like some degree, right? Like you want to have like real, authentic relationships with them.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, yeah.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Yeah, no, that's great. I think that's a really good testament, too, to — I think all martial arts see this, as well as some of the fitness spaces.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: you know, they're not necessarily tied to that training methodology, or that specific art, or that teacher. It is if that gym has built a strong community. That's what people fear losing more than anything, you know? You can charge the same amount, or more or less.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: and have a better instruction or a better comp team, that's not the stuff that matters at the end of the day for most people. You know, the gen pop, it's, do I fit in in this gym? Do I have people I like training with? And, you know, do they support me? So…
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Great call out on that as well.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah. Okay. So also, then, once once, you know, someone's in the door, we want to talk about like developing a culture that makes them want to stay. So there's like, you know.
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Beatrice Jin: We've had a lot of like bad news in the jujitsu community specifically recently. I'm sure it happens in other sports as well. But, you know, I have here like what you tolerate becomes your standard. So basically just even the smallest comments that are like maybe a little bit rude or demeaning towards any group of people or gender. Right. Like you just can't really let those slide like I would I would call them out, if not directly to that person, even in front of the room, just make a statement, hey, like these kind of comments are not okay.
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Beatrice Jin: It's and mostly, you know, sometimes it's an accident and sometimes it's just one time.
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Beatrice Jin: But I would say most of the time. It's not the 1st time it happened, and it's just like the 1st time you heard it, you know, and if someone hears, and they think it's okay, then it's gonna keep happening again. So just like, you know, like baseline discipline in the room, not letting people make
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Beatrice Jin: Comments against certain groups, especially… especially not women, or, like, making, like, weird, like, passive-aggressive comments like that.
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Beatrice Jin: And then things that are, less, like, woman-focused, right? Like, for everybody, you want to remember and use their names. I…
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Beatrice Jin: just remember everyone's names. I don't know, like, I don't have a trick to it, but I try to… I try to always use everyone's names twice every time I see them in the room. It does… you don't have to, like, say, like, Hi, Bob, but, you know, when I address them, or if I make a correction, I always start with, like, Hey, Bob, like, good job on
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Beatrice Jin: That kind of stuff.
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Beatrice Jin: And then, for… for women, specifically, just have, like, examples of female success at every level whenever you can, right? Like, we want,
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Beatrice Jin: We want to have like white belts in a group who are like going through that same journey of struggling and figuring out like if this is even for them sometimes. But you also want examples of people like mid stage, so that just so that everyone has like a vision of what they can be, you know, not necessarily that they're going to copy the path of everyone in front of them, but just to have an example.
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Beatrice Jin: yeah, okay.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Do you have any examples where you've had to like, in the case of, you know, letting comments slide or not letting comments slide, like how do you guys at your academy deal with things like that? I feel like this is something that I see come up in various chats on the internet from other gym owners of like.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: You know, I have this student who's a problem. How would you address this? Do you have any advice for maybe other academy owners who are going through something like that?
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Beatrice Jin: When it's happened for us, we've taken the person to the side and been like, hey, like, that's not how we talk about things, and just, like, don't do it again. And usually they're quite apologetic, and I think, at least, you know, in my previous experiences, they didn't mean it, and it just, I don't know, it was just, like, a bad habit or something, and so…
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Yes.
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Beatrice Jin: we kind of stopped it early on. When someone drops it into the chat, we actually just make a whole announcement to the chat, hey guys, these kind of comments are not tolerated, whether it's about politics or people or whatever, and… I mean, like, it's just… it has to be done… it just, like, has to be done. There's no, like…
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Beatrice Jin: There's not, like, a tricky way of doing it.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Sure.
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Beatrice Jin: Not this.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Yeah, just shut it down right away. Don't let it fester or continue, I think is the best policy for sure. Running my gym.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: I've definitely, as a newer, back in the day, had a few members who I kind of let bring the vibe down for a while. And then it was such a blow up when I finally discussed it with that individual.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: She was like, well, no one told me this whole time. And I was like, well, that's 100% valid. So I think you're spot on. It's like, you got to get in front of it right
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Greg Buck, PushPress: The other thing I wanted to call out is that
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Greg Buck, PushPress: using the names twice in any given session is huge. People feel like you know them, and you're investing into them. And another really cool resource I would like to give to everybody is this concept of the peak-end rule.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Exploit. So, in any given experience, kind of calling back to your first, experience going to a gym is…
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Greg Buck, PushPress: You tend to remember two things from any experience, which is gonna be the…
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Greg Buck, PushPress: most high-intensity part of the experience and the very end of the experience. So something that I found is really, really powerful in the jiu-jitsu scene is
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Your highest impact event is probably going to be if you're rolling or if you're doing a very strenuous drill. But the ending is, did the other students come up to you and say, hey, good job, hope you're back? Or did the instructor pull you aside and say, hey, you did a great job today at my gym?
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Greg Buck, PushPress: we always just high-five everybody on the way out. It's a great way to build, like, that bond within the community, and that's gonna get people coming back and feeling a part of the community, which I think, again, is huge for retention.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, definitely make it a habit. I know some people, especially in the beginning, they'll feel like they're forcing it. Do something that you feel like you're not forcing. In jujitsu, sometimes it's a fist bump. You don't have to os or bow or anything like that. At my gym, we touch elbows, but it's something that everyone's comfortable doing.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: For sure.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah. Okay, cool. Part two for culture and retaining members. So yeah, just adding on to everything we were talking about before, usually I let people just pair up because they're all adults and I feel like they should go with.
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Beatrice Jin: people they're comfortable with. The one exception is when I see someone is being left out, like, consistently, then I'll try to pair them up right away, and then they'll start to get to know people, and then people will start to, you know, reach out to them more.
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Beatrice Jin: And there are a couple times that, you know, I have to swap out bad pairings. Usually when someone is just, like, too strong or, like, unaware of their body, they almost never mean to hurt somebody, they're just, like.
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Beatrice Jin: They just don't get it yet. And so I will also like swap those people out. And then, like one big thing we'll talk about later on as well is just like as an instructor, like you want to be the example, right? You want to show examples of how you ask someone to roll. You know, you always accept no for an answer if they say no. And also you should be comfortable, you know, telling your students, hey, like I, you know, I need to take this round off, or I'm not going to roll with you this round, and you know, not even necessarily have to provide a
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Beatrice Jin: reason. But when they see, like, this person in charge doing that, then they're gonna feel, validated to be able to do that, especially women where, you know, sometimes they feel
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Beatrice Jin: I have experienced seeing them feel like shy, like, oh, I don't think they're going to want to roll with me. I'm going to waste their time. No, like, you know, whenever I want to roll, I always ask everyone. I always, I'm always a person who asked the person, who asked the other person to roll, you know, and I hope that, you know, that sets the example. Okay, like, I, you know, all the women know they can go ask a
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Beatrice Jin: Now.
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Beatrice Jin: And then, did you want to… Okay, okay.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Gotcha.
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Beatrice Jin: No, no, isn't right. We could go back. Actually, one.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Oh, my bad.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Oh…
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Beatrice Jin: I thought you had something to say.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: There you go. Go.
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Beatrice Jin: Sorry.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, no worries. And then, yeah, so the other thing that happens a lot in gyms that I hear stories about, it hasn't really happened in my gym, I don't think, but just like sometimes because there are less women than men, a lot of women will feel like they're competing against each other, like, oh, who's the best woman because, you know, they're the same, they're close to the same size or whatever that is.
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Beatrice Jin: So, you know, as a coach, at least, you know, sometimes you can't help if
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Beatrice Jin: you know, develops, but as a coach, you know, try to avoid comparing people to other people, especially women to other women, or if there's, like, one of two of one demographic, try not to compare them to each other. Just let them, like, you know, be friends or train with people as they are training.
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Beatrice Jin: So that, you know, you have this culture of whatever happens in training, win or lose, it's as long as it's good training, it's good training, right? Like, there's no, like, competing against each other
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Beatrice Jin: And then the final thing is, just the women should be leading in co-ed environments. You want to set, like, the norm that women listen to men and men listen to women, right? And so it's just, like, not a question of, like.
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Beatrice Jin: if someone needs to prove themselves for whatever reason, which I think we'll get into that later, too.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, okay, here we are. Okay, female leadership and co-ed environment. So yeah, you know, like I was saying before, you know, we really want especially a female leader to be able to model how to navigate sparring situations. Right? There's a lot of people that I wouldn't want to roll with in in my academy purely because, you know, I'm a competitor. I try to roll with people close to my size. If they have a style that doesn't really suit that weight class. I also like
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Beatrice Jin: you know, I have one body, and I need to be healthy to be able to leave my gym, and so, I'll say no a lot, or I'll take breaks, or I'll ask other people that I want to roll, and I'll stick to my, training partners, and I want other women to feel, like, permission to do so as well.
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Beatrice Jin: And, you know, some people want to roll with everybody, and that's totally fine, but, just, you know, modeling how to say no, I think that's a big, big thing that I feel that women, struggle with, or, yeah, feeling like they deserve to ask someone to roll and not, like, waste their time, you know?
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Beatrice Jin: And then the other thing with female leadership is you really want, someone that women can ask sensitive questions to. I remember when I was a white belt, I had no one to ask, what should I wear under my gi? You know, like, someone, like, you know, I'm getting a lot of impact on my chest, like, what should I…
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Beatrice Jin: wear in that situation. I didn't know. I just, like, figured, like, bought, like, 5 sports bras, you know? And so I think
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, like that. Those are the kind of things that
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Beatrice Jin: I don't know if a man would actually even know the answer to, even if he was a really nice person. So I think it's nice to have a point person. They don't have to be a black belt. They can be a blue belt who's been training for like a year or 2, and just know. And so, having, like a you know, someone who can answer those questions, I think, just makes someone like feel like they
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Beatrice Jin: or less lost.
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Beatrice Jin: And then, yeah, so another reason why we want female leadership is just that you want to set the expectation that physical dominance is not the same thing as authority, right? You'll see a very commonly… when I started jiu-jitsu, a lot of the schools around me were headed by very large black belt.
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Beatrice Jin: men, and like nothing wrong. I'm sure they're very good, you know, they're good at jiu-jitsu, but you know they could probably be physically dominant, regardless of how how good their skill was.
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Beatrice Jin: And, or how good of leaders or teachers they were. And so,
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Beatrice Jin: I even like had questions of myself. I'm like, man, like, I'm not going to be able to beat everybody that I teach, you know. Are people going to be okay with that? And so, you know, when you have more female leadership, then you kind of start to see like
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Beatrice Jin: you know, coaching is not just about being able to beat up your students. You know, jiu-jitsu is one of the only sports where the coach is, like, playing with the students, in a sense, right? Basketball coaches don't play basketball with their students. You know, soccer coaches are not really playing soccer with their, you know
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Beatrice Jin: teams, you know, they're mostly about strategy. They're mostly about, you know, telling them how they should be training, because they have a different perspective. And so we kind of, you know, I think
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Beatrice Jin: when I coach, I try to embody that role as much as I can, because I know that I can't necessarily show like a 230 pound guy what it feels like to be in half guard, you know, like it's it's just not. I'm not physically going to be able to do that. So
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, and so yeah, and then the final note again is just, you know, we're not always going to have highly ranked women available to teach, but maybe they're around. Maybe, you know, the blue or purple belt who is at the gym is able to give advice, or they're able to just be visible at the gym where other women can look up to them.
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Beatrice Jin: cool community outside of Mass. This is more about like
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Beatrice Jin: You know, you want to build authentic friendships. So, you know, usually friends, they do a little bit more than just beat each other up. I mean, they don't have to. They can just hang out at the gym. That's fine. But, you know, most of the people that I train with, I also enjoy, like getting food with, going on jujitsu journeys with. We have, you know, an easy thing to do for a gym.
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Beatrice Jin: It's just to have a group chat. You know, you can see you send memes, you send food videos, whatever it is that you're doing. That's like very low, low cost in terms of both time and money. And some people will still feel like they're part of a community, right? Because, you know, you thought of that person and you sent them this thing. And so I think.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, I think, you know, at baseline you can get a group chat
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Beatrice Jin: And then yes, how to develop people into a white belt, how to develop
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Beatrice Jin: People with white belts. How to develop white belts onto competitors and leaders. Yeah, so.
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Beatrice Jin: you know, once once we have these women at the gym right, and then all white belts in the gym. Eventually you want to develop them into either leaders or competitors, or something more than just like a student, and contributing more to the community. And I think a lot of people want to be this, but they're afraid to, or they don't think that they can.
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Beatrice Jin: Right. And so I think one thing that's really important is to call them out and be like, hey, like, I think you would like this or I think you would do well on this and you should give it a shot.
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Beatrice Jin: When I started jiu jitsu, I had no idea what I want out of it. I just thought it was really fun and I would do it. And it was it was my instructor who told me, hey, I think you should go to PANS. And I was like, what's PANS? You know, but like someone who joins the sport is going to have no idea what these competitions are, what their possible career paths are or side gig. You know, not everyone's going to quit their job to do jiu jitsu, but what their side gig and teaching would be.
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Beatrice Jin: Right. But if you kind of plant the seed as a coach, then you kind of have to. But you have to be the person to do it. You know, most of the time people aren't going to come up with this themselves, especially if they already have other things going on.
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Beatrice Jin: And so, I think, like, when you're looking to develop these people into, competitors or leaders, or, you know, you want someone to lead a women's class, you gotta sit down, make a plan with them, at least set a goal with them for, like, 6 months to a year, and just make sure they know that
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Beatrice Jin: they're going to go through the same things that you went through. Right? There's going to be ups. There's going to be downs. They're going to fail a lot, you know. They're going to lose a lot in competition most of the time, you know, unless they're a phenom. So it's a very long term commitment. But again, like you, you have to like, take the initiative to tell them. I think a lot of people, especially if they're going to a gym where
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Beatrice Jin: their instructor is, like, very highly accomplished. They might think, like.
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Beatrice Jin: The instructor is special and I cannot be like that. And when they, you know, they definitely can, you know, in their own category or whatever it is. And so, yeah, just to take initiative and call those people out when you can, if you want.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: There.
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Beatrice Jin: Fabulous.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Thank you.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Yeah, are there any specific characteristics you look at for identifying people like this? Whether it's, like, attendance at the gym, how long they've been coming, you know, their involvement in the community, or any specific, like, personality traits or anything like that?
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, for leadership, we look for consistency. So, like, someone who, like, comes, and they stick to the schedule. Like, no matter what happens, they stick to the schedule. Even when they don't stick to the schedule, they feel bad about not doing it, and they stick to it on their own volition.
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Beatrice Jin: And so usually when you want someone at the gym to teach, you want them to like come like regularly and like be part of the long-term growth of the gym, right? So that's the number one thing, consistency. But then in terms of competitors, it's never talent. It's almost always the will, like the will to fight, you know, like no matter what kind of position they're in, they're not gonna like stop moving or stop fighting.
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Beatrice Jin: that's… that'll take someone, like, pretty far, you know? You know, it's like what everyone says about competition, it's not about who's the best, it's, like, who's left, right? You just want to get that person who's gonna, like, never quit, and they'll get there someday.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: That's awesome.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah.
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Beatrice Jin: Okay, cool. Women's classes or no, I would.
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Beatrice Jin: love to hear everyone else's perspective on this, because I actually ran a women's class for, 3 or 4 years, and I've met some of my, like, really, like, best friends through women's class, and I actually ended up, not teaching it anymore, because I felt like…
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Beatrice Jin: You know, I take full responsibility for this, but like, you know, the culture of women's class became more social and we had so many sparring opportunities outside of women's class because we had two women's open mats.
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Beatrice Jin: Already that I felt like, you know, I should give the time.
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Beatrice Jin: for women's class to the rest of my gym, you know, so.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, I think the the big thing with women's classes. You just need to decide like what kind of class it's going to be like, is it going to be self-defense? Or is it going to be like, you know, is it? Is it just going to be a class like a regular class? But for women.
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Beatrice Jin: And I think, you know, one of the hardest parts of a women's class is just that sometimes you don't have a critical mass. If you're teaching, like, a group of three people, it's not the same vibe as teaching a group of 10 to 12 people. So, like, you know, how long are you going to be able to, like, stay consistent in that
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah. And then the one thing is, you know, I like, I think I know a lot of people start this because they believe that women's class can turn into a funnel to a regular class. But I found that almost all the women
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Beatrice Jin: already did co-ed class, at least in our area, at least the ones that came to my gym. And so it felt like there was not really a need for this time, which that we eventually turned into a co-ed comp training.
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Beatrice Jin: so I do think that in general.
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Beatrice Jin: I have seen more success when the women's class is just a funnel to co-ed class, only because, like.
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Beatrice Jin: you know, men still have to have some opportunity to learn to roll with women, or else they're not going to know how to roll with women, and it's not their fault if they don't ever roll with women, you know? And women are not going to be able to learn how to roll with men unless they actually do that. And so, you know, if women's class is, like, an opportunity to, like, build some confidence.
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Beatrice Jin: and comfort with like the close contact, then, you know, then I think that it's useful. But we like, honestly, over many years, just never hit a critical mass for that. And everyone who came to my class again, you know, already trained like 3 or 4 times a week in our regular classes. So it seemed a little bit like extraneous.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Kind of redundant. We had a question in the chat. Do you have any reasoning behind why one time a week for a women's class wouldn't be enough?
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, so if that's… if that's the only class that someone is taking, I feel that, especially for, like, a skill-based sport like jiu-jitsu, and especially with, like, if it's only a one-hour class, there's not enough time to develop the skill with enough repetition, right? Like, if you think about, like, the complexity of jiu-jitsu, it's kind
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Beatrice Jin: learning a language. But with your body, if you like, learn the language once a week, it's really not enough. You don't get a chance to practice it outside of class. And so I know of a successful women's program in like Fredericksburg. They have like 2 or 3 times a week at like 5 Pm. And that's like a perfect time for like, you know, like moms to come in and train, and then like, and then also like jump into co-ed class afterwards. But yeah, 2 times a week definitely minimum for something that's skill based.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Got it. So it's like a minimum effective dose type thing. If they're only going to take the women's class, we have to provide them the opportunity to at least come.
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Beatrice Jin: Yep.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Yeah. Yeah. Any, any insight, obviously, you being a woman and myself not being a woman, I had a client, one of my fitness clients recently, who was looking to get into jiu-jitsu with her daughter.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: She called around to a few different gyms, and she actually ended up not going to the gym that had the, the more established women's program, because she felt like that gym was pigeonholing her into she could only do the women's class.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: So any, any framing of like how you would talk to potentially a lead if you did have a women's class, you know, you know, how do you lay that offer out to them? Like, is it, hey, we do have a women's class and this is of interest to you, but you're also able to go into the regular class or the co-ed class.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Because, yeah, it was interesting to me, obviously, being an outside perspective, not being a woman myself, you know, I would think a women's class would be very good, but she was turned off by it just because she felt like they would only let her do the women's class.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, that's a interesting business decision. But I think that I think the way that I would explain to someone is that you know, like I was saying, Jiu Jitsu is a skill based sport. So in order for you to like.
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Beatrice Jin: or… get good, get good at it, or get good enough at that. Good, good, get good at it.
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Beatrice Jin: quick enough that you would, like, enjoy it, you should come, like, minimum two to three times a week, right? So if there's only one women's class, then we'd want you to try to come to at least one other class. And, you know, if for the first month you can only come once a week, come to the women's class, and that's fine. That'll probably be, like, the best way to scale up.
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Beatrice Jin: But, like, eventually, you really want to, like, do, like, twice a week minimum, you know? And so that way, you're going to feel like you're making progress, you're not wasting your time. And, you know, there are a lot of ways to work out that don't, like, destroy your joints. And if you… if you want to, you know, learn the skill.
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Beatrice Jin: cool. Okay, women's women's open mat. I can speak to a little bit more, because, you know, this is something that I've actively been doing. I'm like super passionate about. I feel like it like directly also benefits me. So of course, like, I'm going to continue holding it. I think, just like women's class. I want it to be frequent and regular, because it's not necessarily instruction, or even the main source of income for most students, because most open mats are free or like a very low fee.
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Beatrice Jin: You know, it can be once a week that, you know, that's fine. For me, I want it to be frequent and regular because again, you know, I like that like repetitive, like we need as much time working on skill as much as possible. So I have it twice a week, Friday night and Sunday at noon.
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Beatrice Jin: I think, in general, it's really good to have the same person
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Beatrice Jin: hosting it as much as possible, just because, like, once someone can attach a face to it, then they become familiar with it, and it becomes more comfortable, you know? I see a lot of women's open mats, in the DMV area pop up, and they're from, like, random schools, there's no faces, it's just, like.
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Beatrice Jin: this is happening, you know, hope to see you there, or maybe they're even, like, raising money for charity, which is a very, like, noble cause, but if I don't know anyone there, if I don't see someone that I know, then I kind of, like.
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Beatrice Jin: don't want to drive all the way out there to train with people that, you know, have no idea what's going to happen. And so.
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Beatrice Jin: I think, for me personally, especially because, like, you know, I've developed like
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Beatrice Jin: kind of a social media personality. It really helped for me to. Oh, one second.
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Beatrice Jin: did my webcam.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Hey, Cam went out.
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Beatrice Jin: Mmm.
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Beatrice Jin: Okay.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Yeah, you're.
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Beatrice Jin: Cool.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah. So so yeah, I I try to as much as possible. Provide like, okay, like.
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Beatrice Jin: Beatrice is gonna be at Women's Open Mass, so you know one person there, and then, like, you know, you hopefully know the rest of the people there. And so, you know, because I host them so often, we take pictures all the time, we make sure that people know that, you know, all these competitors are coming, you know, these are the people from all sorts of different gyms coming every single week, so…
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Beatrice Jin: when you come, you're taking… you have as much information as possible, you know? They know it's a competitive open map, like, it's gonna be really hard trading, but they know, like, you know, they know who's, who's, gonna be there, and so, like, that's gonna be the vibe.
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Beatrice Jin: I made sure that my women's open mat was like advertised as a competitive women's open mat. You know, we're going to do ten rounds straight. Most people aren't going to stop. If you want to take a break, it's fine. But, you know, most people won't. So, that's that's like also the vibe you could expect. Like someone's going to come at you. And, if you don't want if you want to, like, sit and talk, probably
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Beatrice Jin: Not that people don't sit and talk, but you know we like just overall like people are coming to train hard and then talk after.
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Beatrice Jin: And, and yeah, and so, you know, because I feel like it's a very specific subsection, I feel like the more specific you get a lot of the times, then you're like, you start to, like, hone in on the audience. And so now I feel like, no matter how many people are opened up a map, whether it's like 6 or if it's 20, it's always like.
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Beatrice Jin: the same mentality when we come into training. So it's been very productive for me, and I think a lot of other people feel the same way about this open map.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: I have two questions for you. So, first is from Lisa.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: How would you articulate the value of a women's open mat versus a Cohen open mat?
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Whether that's through online messaging, or maybe to your community itself.
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Beatrice Jin: Yes, oh man, okay. I don't know if I could have, like, a two-sentence answer to this, but I would say, like, this is kind of, like, answering a question, like, should, like, if you have the option, should you train with men, or should you train with people of different sizes, right? And I would say, like.
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Beatrice Jin: you know, when you train with someone who's a different size or different gender than you, then, you know, the Jiu-Jitsu still works, but you have to do, like, a certain level of translation.
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Beatrice Jin: So it's kind of like, I don't know, I'm not going to use a music analogy. Let me think about it. You have to use some like level of translation. Right. And so, but when you, go with somebody who's like your size and skill.
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Beatrice Jin: then it's like a direct, like, one-to-one, like, this works for this, this works for this, right? And so, I feel like if you're, especially if you compete
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Beatrice Jin: it's really in your interest to go with people as close to your level and as close to your size as possible. And, you know, you can learn peripherally from everyone else who's, like, a different size, bigger or smaller man or woman.
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Beatrice Jin: But know that everything that you do has some sort of translation. Either it's like too much space or too little space, or you have to use a little more strength or a little less strength.
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Beatrice Jin: But when you go one-to-one with someone who's close to you, you don't have to do that. Okay, so it's just a little bit less like mental math. And so that's why I feel like women's training is so useful because I just, I don't, like, strength is not a factor anymore that I have to be like, oh, I should have amped that up way more or less because I know we're just going one-to-one.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: My other question is around, just running a gym and having a good open mat. Do you guys see that as a through-line to leads? Which I know is kind of a taboo topic in the jiu-jitsu space of, you know, the cross-training, and some gyms are very against it. Do you see…
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Greg Buck, PushPress: women who attend your open map more regularly either convert to members at your facility, or maybe do drop-ins there more frequently? That'd be more on a paid basis. Do you see, like, a business benefit to that as well? Other than, obviously, the great benefits to… to the greater DMV area.
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Beatrice Jin: Honestly, like, negligibly. Like, I would not count on it as a business thing. I'm sure there's a way to do it, but, you know, I think the value of having an open mat is…
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Beatrice Jin: to have the cross training, and so I actually… I try, actually, like, actively not to recruit people when people come to my Women's Open Mat, and I appreciate when people don't recruit to their gyms when they come to my Open Mat, you know?
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Greg Buck, PushPress: For sure.
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Beatrice Jin: I think it's very useful to have like very different styles from all the different gyms. And so that's that would be the value. And it's very like intangible, like very like for the sport, the love of the sport kind of thing.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Yep.
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Beatrice Jin: But, yeah, I think,
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, this is not business oriented, but like a lot of things in life are not like, you know, for the good of business. And.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: For sure.
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Beatrice Jin: I think… I think in my case, Women's Ultimate Mat, is one of them. The one thing that I did do this… this year is I put a $10, door fee for Purple Belts and Down, and it… it was… it was partially because I felt that people…
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Beatrice Jin: To some extent, not everyone, but there were some people who I felt like were taking advantage of the Open Mat, and they were coming there for free while they trained at other gyms, and they would still tell me that the Open Mat was their best training.
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Beatrice Jin: And I felt like that was a little bit unfair to my business if they were coming here to, to benefit from it completely for free. And so, I felt like the door fee was one way of just acknowledging that, hey, like, you know, we're still providing the space and the environment. It's been built over many years, where someone can get, like.
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Beatrice Jin: basically instruction from an upper bell if they really wanted to. And
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Beatrice Jin: And still, and still train somewhere else.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: All right, so that was really our last, slide we had prepared for today. So what we're gonna do, guys, is we're gonna throw up here quickly just,
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Our link here to book a demo with PushPress, if you weren't aware, Beatrice, and I always say your guys' gym name wrong, Kogayan.
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Beatrice Jin: Go on, yeah.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Plus, yes, all right, Kogayan Academy. We power Kogayan Academy and help Beatrice with her day-to-day at the facility. So if you need help with structuring your classes, billing your members.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: booking privates, creating a website, we do all of that here at PushPress, so feel free, scan this, book a demo with us if you have any questions on that front. And then what we'll do next is kind of open up the Q&A,
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Greg Buck, PushPress: we got about 10 minutes here where we can just go through any questions we missed in the chat, and then anything else that you guys come up with as we're talking. So one that really stuck out to me from the chat from earlier is.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Could you further describe or define what a mentor role in jiu-jitsu could look like?
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah. So I think it's it's less like formal. But usually, when there's someone that I see who has like a lot of potential, and they seem like open to learning is usually like whenever there's a round off. I try to take them aside, and we try to work on a position that's relevant to them. It's a lot of the times just like
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Beatrice Jin: I think one of the things that people struggle with the most in Jiu Jitsu is feeling lost like they don't know what to work on, because there's like literally a thousand things that they could be working on in Jiu Jitsu. And so, you know, as a coach like trying to tell them like, Hey, like, you know, I think you should like focus on these things. And you know, what are the problems
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Beatrice Jin: But yeah, it's just for for me, when I'm when I act as a mentor, it's usually on my free rounds off. I try to grab someone that you know. I feel like
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Beatrice Jin: really cares about being, you know, like, told something, and I'll… I'll try to give them as much advice as I can.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Sure. And kind of echoing back to what you said is that person doesn't always need to be an instructor or a black belt. It can be a blue belt who's been practicing for a while, who's really good at this one thing, who can teach another blue belt or a white belt or even a purple belt, you know?
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, absolutely.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: For sure.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Question from Katie, kind of…
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Greg Buck, PushPress: two-part this a little bit. So, Katie's gym has struggled with building an open mat, and
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Greg Buck, PushPress: they've struggled in bringing in cross-training from other gyms. They haven't really set a specific vibe yet, but she feels, in general, it's a bit more social. Any advice for gyms who are trying to launch an open mat and kind of build that following of their open mat?
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, it's so, you know, I will say when I started my open mat for women, it was three people like me and two other girls. So it's not even open mat. It's like training basically. Yeah. And we would just post pictures and in one year our biggest open mat was seven people. So you have to think about like, you know, I know like it says here that, you know, they were more of a social vibe, but.
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Beatrice Jin: for us, like, for me, it didn't matter how many people were there, as long as the training was good, we're gonna have the open mat, we're gonna have the training. So
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Beatrice Jin: 10 or 20 times over the past 3 or 4 years that there was only one other person. We'll still do the 10 rounds, because it's going to be good training, you know. We try to get the most out of it. And so one thing is just like having patience and holding it anyway, you know. I'm
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Beatrice Jin: Personally, kind of against, like, once a month open mats, unless you're doing, like, hardcore marketing every single week for it, because.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: I saw.
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Beatrice Jin: you know, it's just not frequent enough that it's in the back of someone's mind, you know? No one has to put my open mat on their calendar. They know it's every Friday, every Sunday, you know, 7.30, 12.30. But if it's once a month, then you're like, oh, like, is it Saturday? Is it Sund
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Beatrice Jin: So yeah, I think most people are probably doing once a month open mats. If that's the case, a lot of pictures, a lot of promotion, try to get people in.
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Beatrice Jin: When we have open mat, it's always ten rounds. It's always six minutes. Everyone knows what to expect. I think another part of a woman's open mat that maybe people feel frustrated with is they go and they don't really know what to do. Like, should I talk for half the time? Should I train for half the time? Like, what is the vibe like? I don't know, you know. So I think that needs to be set by someone in charge. And that way people kind of like will follow suit. And then as you continue that, then the woman's open mat will develop.
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Beatrice Jin: into something over time.
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Beatrice Jin: But yeah, a year, a year, and it was at most 7 people. So you gotta think about like, really, we had that. We had the empty net sometimes.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Yeah, it's a long process. I think something I've seen as well, so in my seven years of practice, I've been at three different academies now. And from what I saw between the three academies.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: One had a decent open mat. One had really no open mat, so to speak. And now my current academy has a really, really good open mat. I think part of that, too, comes from the culture of the gym.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: of, at this school, it's, it's very clear that it's a high-level open mat, but still, everyone is welcome. And open mat is kind of like, that's the day of the week that no one wants to miss.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Where at other schools I had been a part of, it was almost like you didn't really ask if you could go to Open Mat. If you were brave enough, you could kind of show up, but sometimes you were kind of like, oh, maybe this isn't for you.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: And I think at my facility now or my academy, it's just very much like that's the day you want to come. You're going to get lots of good training in.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: but also, like, that's when everybody from the morning or the afternoon classes can all meet at the same day, and, like, you're missing out if you miss open mat. So I think kind of building that culture within your academy is also really important of, you know, hey.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: We're gonna do hard training, you know, obviously in class at the end of class, but if you can come in and get an hour of true hard training once a week, like, that's a game changer, in my opinion.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, and I would say, like in general.
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Beatrice Jin: from my experience in this area, I think hard technical training is way harder to come by than a chill environment. Like, you could go to a lot of places, have a chill environment, do your warm-ups, like, drill for 40 minutes, and then, like, do 3 rounds, you know? So, I think…
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Beatrice Jin: it's really worth investing if you're interested in that, you know, like, having a hard training session that's advertised well and safe, and everyone is welcome, like Rex said.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Yeah. Another question kind of following this.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Parallel. Did you ever consider calling your OpenMAT a comp training session? Leah's push, not pushback, but Leah's question around this is because in her mind, OpenMAT is generally less structured and more laid back, where kind of what you've described is more like what many people would describe as like a comp training class.
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Beatrice Jin: I've thought about it. I think of comp training as a little bit different. I think comp training is more.
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Beatrice Jin: Like for me at my gym, my comp training is run as you're taught how to win, not how to fight. So like we do a lot of like positionals, like scoring situations, a lot of positional training that are related to like competition specific scenarios. Whereas if you're just rolling, I kind of like always refer to it as just like sparring or, or open mat. And then the other thing is I wanted it to be called open mat because I wanted, I still wanted people to be interested in like being
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Beatrice Jin: like, oh, like, what's this, you know
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Beatrice Jin: And then, whenever I advertise it, I have like this carousel on Instagram that's like pinned to my profile and the open mat profile. It has the rules of the open mat. It says it's going to be ten rounds. So people know it's open mat, but they also know, you know, right underneath of it, it says like ten rounds times six minutes. And, you know, that's and so they, they know it's not like a, like a quote unquote regular open mat.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Right. So the open mat title is more to tell them it's open to everybody, less that it's not going to be good training. Yeah.
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Beatrice Jin: Yeah, a lot of people get scared with comp training.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: For sure.
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Beatrice Jin: People in my own academy are scared of comp training. I'm like, guys, like, we're not, we're not, like, raging fighting here, you know? It's just learning about how to win. But anyway, yeah, it's not really comp training.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Good. Maybe good. Last final question. Any advice on to just generally get more women involved in jujitsu?
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Beatrice Jin: Generally.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: That's a very broad question, I understand. But anything in your mind, obviously creating a women's program could be one way. I think you've done a great job through your social media presence of promoting the sport as a woman and a high level competitor and an instructor and a personality.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Where you're a very inviting presence, I think, for a lot of women and men.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: But anything in particular, like, if an academy is really struggling to bring women in the door, that they can maybe do to market a bit differently, or programs they can offer outside of maybe what we've talked about today? You know, how do we just get more women on the map, is the general question.
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Beatrice Jin: Man, I, you know, I feel like if there was like one answer to this, like.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Yes.
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Beatrice Jin: If it was just like you should start a mom's program, then we would all just have mom's programs. But I think at the end of the day, you know, like it took me a long time to learn how to run a women's program as a woman, you know? So I think like at the end of the day, it's just like you got to care about people, you know, like you can't view like the women's program as something that like you need to make a successful gym, right? Like whether you're a man or a woman, like when a woman's walked through the door, you got to care about them as a person, you know?
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Beatrice Jin: You know, you should be, like, sensitive to, hey, like, you know.
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Beatrice Jin: a lot of probably like, I don't know what the statistics are, but a lot of men are like way stronger than women. So you just want to pair up with someone safe.
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Beatrice Jin: you wanna, you know, just be aware of the, like, the types of, like, problems that they're gonna have, which we, you know, talked about in, in this, in these slides. And,
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Beatrice Jin: Just like, yeah, I don't know, you should like have conversations with them. A big thing about business and jujitsu now and all of these like softwares, you know, it's about like getting feedback as soon as possible, right? Like every time someone takes a trial class, you try to get feedback from them. How was this?
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Swe.
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Beatrice Jin: one through five, you know, and then… Yeah. And then, like, get them to tell you. And the more data you have, the better. A lot of people run martial arts gyms based on vibes.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Mmh.
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Beatrice Jin: you can do it, and… but, like, if you have information, you should get more information. So, just, like, ask women what they think when they come to your gym, you know, and every woman is different. A lot of women who come to my gym don't end up joining, they go to a different gym, and I think it's for the best, honestly. So, yeah, you just gotta care about people and, you know, ask them what they.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Yeah, I think digging deep is huge. You know, like you said, asking if, if women.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: as a, you know, a base seems to be a struggle for you, digging into the women you have of why they're there. When a lead who's a woman comes through the door, ask them about their experience after their first class, make sure you're following up. And I think something that a lot of people don't even think about, and you touched on really well here, is
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Greg Buck, PushPress: you know, on your social media, do you just have the big sweaty bros who are rolling around? Because, like, that can be intimidating to men and women, right? So, I think you're…
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Greg Buck, PushPress: what you talked about in terms of marketing of people smiling, it doesn't have to be they're killing each other, they don't have to look like they just got done fighting, and make sure you have good representation of your women that are already in the gym. I think that's super inviting, and I think the same thing goes for, Academy's websites. If your website only features
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Greg Buck, PushPress: you know, your 10-time world champ black belt who's some jacked stud. Like, he's cool. I probably think he's really cool, but my mom or my wife might not, you know? So, I think that's where we need to hone in as a…
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Greg Buck, PushPress: as a subset of gyms of, you know, let's make our messaging a little bit more broad to the market, and I think, you know, hopefully women and others will come from that.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: But this was incredible, Beatrice. We appreciate your time. It's always great to catch up with you. I hope everybody in the chat today found something that they can take home with them today.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: The big thing I always say whenever I come to a webinar or a conference is take one or two things away today and try to implement that into your business.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Don't go and try to start running a once-a-week women's open mat and launch a women's program.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: And revamp all of your social media to just feature women like pick 1 or 2 things that you think you can execute really well on. And then from there, you know, as you master that, make another tweak and keep moving it down the road. But again, Beatrice, thank you so much for your time today. This was incredible. And hopefully we'll see you soon at a competition, I'm sure.
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Beatrice Jin: Cool, awesome, thank you everybody.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Aw.
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Beatrice Jin: I really appreciate it. Thank you.
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Greg Buck, PushPress: Thank you guys. Have a great day.
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