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PushPress: So, thanks to everyone for joining, welcome. My name is Zach Forrest, I'm with PushPress, and today, we're talking about probably, in my opinion, one of the hardest parts of running a gym, and that's building a legit coaching staff that actually sticks.
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PushPress: I've got with me two people that have done this at scale. Mr. Nick Johnston, excuse me, is the CEO of Proven Fitness, and through our discussions, I've learned that Nick has
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PushPress: I would say, tremendous insight and perspective on building just successful teams in general. And then, Dwight Upshaw, you are the Director of Global Affiliates. You started the affiliate program with Proven from the ground up, and now it's networked to over 600 gyms worldwide, and that's… that's…
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PushPress: pretty incredible by itself. Is that true? 600 gyms? You guys are above 600 gyms?
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Dwight Upshaw: Yeah, we don't like to give exact numbers, but yeah, like, above 600's kind of where we're at.
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PushPress: I don't like to brag or anything like that, yeah, that's…
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Nic Johnston: Pretty phenomenal.
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PushPress: So, we're gonna get into the sourcing, vetting, and the retention, or the keeping of coaches. I'm really excited for this, because I know I'm gonna learn some stuff from you guys as we go through this. Dwight, do you want to kick off with, with your team share whenever you're ready?
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Dwight Upshaw: I'll, I'll pull that up, let's see.
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PushPress: go for it. Yeah, I… I'm… I'm really interested in your guys' take on…
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PushPress: What gym owners get wrong about the hiring process before they even go out to post a job.
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Dwight Upshaw: Yeah, so, I mean, I think, you know, the biggest thing that we kind of run into, and I will say that it's not an easy job, building a team within a CrossFit gym, or a functional fitness space, or a gym in general, because what we need is kind of, like, it's kind of hard to find that perfect hire where you're looking for someone that has huge motivation.
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Dwight Upshaw: has the hunger, has the availability, and knows that they honestly can't make a lot of money doing this job, right? So you're actually really trying to look for a passionate individual that, like, really loves what they do, and they're after it. So it's trying to understand
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Dwight Upshaw: how do we bring those right people in, and how do we find them, is gonna be one of, like, the biggest things. And so, my big thing is, you know, here, a rushed hire costs more, right, than anything else, because if you hire out of need, right, rather than hire for the right person, you end up kind of costing yourself more in the long run. I was talking about this with Zach yesterday, where a lot of times, I think we've all run into this as a gym owner, where
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Dwight Upshaw: You hire out of need, and you kind of hire fast.
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Dwight Upshaw: And you put someone new into a role, and then all of a sudden, your members are complaining to you, they haven't hit the right, you know, they're not meeting the standard that you put out there in your gym.
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Dwight Upshaw: And then it degrades.
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Dwight Upshaw: what the product is that you're trying to put out there, and it will hurt members down the line, not to mention the fact that it's probably gonna hurt you, because you're gonna have to fire that person, get them out of there, and you're gonna be covering all of their classes for a really long time, until you actually find the right person, and you're gonna have to be a lot more patient the second time around, because you know you've hit that, you've gone through that, you're not gonna do it again. So I've been through that, where I've been coaching 30
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Dwight Upshaw: Plus classes in a week.
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Dwight Upshaw: for about, like, 5 or 6 weeks because, you had to get rid of someone that you thought was gonna be filling a good role, and then they didn't match that. So, you know, that's one of the biggest things that I think can be… the reason why this is such a big and important thing is that your coaches, who you hire, your team, I mean, it's your culture that you built. And so, my biggest thing when you're looking at, okay, what's the biggest fault that people get to?
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Dwight Upshaw: Is that they hire just out of need for a coach, but they don't hire for someone that's actually building your culture in your community, and who… and that's meeting your standard.
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PushPress: Two things that you said that gave me a little bit of, anxiety was the 30 classes a week for 5 to 6. What a surefire way to get to burnout and to be just unhappy at the gym all the time.
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Dwight Upshaw: Yeah, it was, I will say, like, it's one of those time periods where, like, I… it almost, like, you take it as a badge of honor, right? Yeah. But then you're just like, yeah, I can do this, and I can fake how engaged I am in front of people, and you can only do that for so long, and people are like, dude, are you okay?
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PushPress: You know it's bad when your members start coming up to you, being like, hey, I'm concerned about you. You're like, oh, crap. Yeah, and then the other thing that you said that, man, I had a very specific memory pop up was the…
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PushPress: the firing conversation. It's like, when you're quick to hire, and you don't hire that right person, you're just shooting yourself in the foot, because… I mean, I'm imagining either one of you guys have had a conversation around firing someone that you then look back on and be like, man, you know what? In retrospect, I shouldn't have hired them to begin with.
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Dwight Upshaw: Yep.
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PushPress: Yeah.
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Nic Johnston: Yeah, I think to that point too, right, that becomes one of those things where, just like you said, Zach, it's kind of the opposite, right? You want to be very slow to hire and fast to fire if you have to, and what we've learned over time, and kind of the whole crux of this, is because we've been able to do this at scale, and because we're really just
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Nic Johnston: you know, CrossFit affiliate members at the core of what we do, we've seen this on every level, right? And then, Dwight hit the nail on the head when it comes to culture, because everybody's gym is going to be different in the culture, right? And everybody… Mark's gym's gonna be a lot different than Sam's gym, and then we talk about, even geographically.
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Nic Johnston: culturally different. You can't have a one-size-fits-all when it comes to your coaches, and what you're trying to do at your gym, and your class offerings, so…
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Nic Johnston: Getting to know what you really want out of your coaches and your members is probably the number one thing I'm sure we'll dive into even more on this call, but, you know, that's what we've learned the most, and since we can fail at scale, we get to learn this really fast, and it's something that we get to pass on to our affiliates as well.
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PushPress: Yeah, I think that's actually a good point to make before we go on. And Dwight, I don't want to take… I know you've got a lot on the next slide.
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Dwight Upshaw: I like going back and forth.
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PushPress: So, what you were just speaking about, Nick, and…
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PushPress: Is you want to operate within frameworks and mechanisms, understanding that stuff, not, like, rule sets, or not necessarily, like, you have a playbook that you're following that is,
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PushPress: given to you by someone else. Because, like you said, every gym, whether it's geographically, culturally, financially, they're all different. So, if you take a playbook from someone else, and you try and implement it to the T, you're… I feel like you're setting yourself up for example, or setting yourself up for failure. So, I think what I would like to discuss further, and Dwight, tell me if this is gonna lead you into the next slide, is
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PushPress: Hey, what are some general, guidelines or guideposts that we can operate in
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PushPress: To ensure that it works for our gym.
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PushPress: For our business.
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Dwight Upshaw: So I think, you know, where I'm going into, I'm gonna go to the next slide, which is sourcing, right? Kind of, like, whether or not it works for your gym.
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Dwight Upshaw: this is where I was saying, like, you want to make sure, right, so build the bench before the seat is empty, right? Kind of, I liked when I was, you know, running the gym totally full-time, and I was just on the gym side.
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Dwight Upshaw: I always was kind of, like, looking for, right, those people that were within my own community, that kind of matched the culture, they had leadership qualities, they really moved well, they were concerned, they were coachable.
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Dwight Upshaw: And they constantly showed up and were there even without being asked to.
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Dwight Upshaw: And those are people that, like, you have members like that, that are in your community, that you might just want to put, like, the seat, right, in their brain of, like, hey, like, would you like to start shadowing some classes, right? Building within your community, and it's like, hey, we don't really have a role yet, but I love you being here, and I might want to find a role for you at some point.
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Dwight Upshaw: And so, my best coaches, honestly, have always come from our community. I can remember one as being, like, my best coach ever, and he was a CU student who was trying to be a Navy SEAL, and he showed up, he was, like, you know, cared about every single little detail of everything that he did. You know, and then he kind of, you know, just, like, looked like he was, you know, mapped out, and you kind of just started putting him in front, and he was like, I don't even know.
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Dwight Upshaw: He was kind of quiet, but then all of a sudden he got in front of people, and he just…
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Dwight Upshaw: you know, excelled, and had leadership qualities, right? And he had that work ethic that you really wanted, and he was always, like, the show up, do the right thing, and if I was on vacation, I knew that I could put more on him, and it would always work out, right? And so, see, that's, like, a great example of it.
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PushPress: So he's dependable, because you keep…
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PushPress: word best… the best coach, or maybe you said best… no, did you say best hire? I forget the…
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Dwight Upshaw: I think it's the best, the best hire, and it was because he literally had been through the gym, he'd worked there, you know, he'd worked out there from, like, 18 to 21, started coaching at 21, but what you end up having is you have someone that understands your culture, they understand how you coach.
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Dwight Upshaw: They are part of your community, and people already look up to them as, like, this person that, like, for one, moves well, they show up, they're on time, they're super considerate of everybody, they know people, and relationships are everything. So, if you have someone that's in the community that has the good relationship, that knows how to build relationships, who also
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Dwight Upshaw: is coachable.
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Dwight Upshaw: and really is listening and looking, they understand how to coach more, too, if they're coachable, because they're actually really considerate about their own movement patterns, they're considerate about how they go about their day, and they're, like, in every single class, so they have the feel, the flow, and they understand what your methodology is and what your culture and community are. Like you said, following a playbook from someone else.
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Dwight Upshaw: you don't have that, right? You don't, like, now it's, like, cultivated, it's in there. So, I really do think that people within your own community are probably going to almost always be your best hire, and I say almost.
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Dwight Upshaw: Because it is one of those things where you build it from the ground up, and you keep, you know, pulling it in, so having an eye out for it is going to be one of the biggest things that you can do, and I think we all
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Dwight Upshaw: all gyms are in different scenarios of who they can pull from. Luckily, you know, being in a college town, it's kind of nice, because you wind up with young, hungry people that, like, you know, just want to be a part of the gym, and be a part of something bigger.
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PushPress: Cool. I like that. So, membership, definitely a good spot to pull from. Yeah.
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Dwight Upshaw: And then, you know, the one thing that I think, you know, comes up is people relocate. So there are people that are full-time, long-term coaches who are very passionate about it, and I think that this is where job boards come in, as being, like, a really key point. I think, barbell jobs and Indeed are probably the biggest areas that we, like, would pull from.
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Dwight Upshaw: And this is an area where you can get a diamond in the rough. The one thing that you also have to be watchful for on something like this, and this is where we'll get into in the next, which is, like, asking the right questions when you are hiring.
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Dwight Upshaw: is…
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Dwight Upshaw: they might have a ton of experience. They might come from really cool places, they might have done a lot of things, they might have this resume that's great, and then you start asking questions, and it's like, they just don't match your culture, even though they have a huge amount of experience.
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Dwight Upshaw: Right. So, you can find some diamonds in the rough where you find an 8-10 year plus coach.
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Dwight Upshaw: Who is super humble, coachable, wants to be a part of your community, and they want to keep growing.
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Dwight Upshaw: That's… that's what you want, right? So that's what we're looking for when we're putting up job boards, and I think that the biggest thing there is how do you post those out, how do you get those there? You need to know what you're putting out there, and what the job is, and really be, clear about the expectations of the job when you post your job.
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Dwight Upshaw: So you get the right candidates, so you don't have to whittle through, like, a bunch where you're just posting something kind of vague, and you get a bunch of these people that don't match.
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PushPress: Yep, that makes total sense. This just actually popped in my head, so job boards, and I was reading, you know, so Barbell Jobs and Indeed. What about… do you guys have any experience with… I… and I don't, so this is dumb, let me know. LinkedIn?
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Dwight Upshaw: I have not used LinkedIn that much for coaching. I know my wife works in tech sales, and that's where they live.
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PushPress: Yeah, that's a huge thing in tech, but, like, do you think LinkedIn has any… is there any reason for a gym owner to be on there with… with… professionally, so that they could have visibility in front of those types of people?
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PushPress: I don't know, it just popped in my head, like.
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Nic Johnston: Yeah, I think… I think it's one of those tools that you don't know until you try, right? Like, there could be somebody that…
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Nic Johnston: if you are active, and you're posting, and people pick up on your culture, and people pick on what you believe in, and you're posting about your gym, you probably can find somebody there. I don't think it's the best place organically to do it, but I think if you are the most active on any platform, you're gonna find people that reach out to you. And like Dwight was saying, I think
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Nic Johnston: what we have learned over time, and this goes a little bit beyond just the gym setting and into our business as well on the hiring side, is, you know, what I have learned and what we have learned is we would 10 times out of 10 rather take someone that may not have the experience on day one, if they have a
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Nic Johnston: general excitement, and they're just very passionate about learning and wanting to be part of what you're building. As long as your culture is set and it's defined into a certain framework that you truly believe you know what direction you're going, you can find people to fit that. I think the problem becomes, if you don't have that defined, and you're trying to figure that out along the way, that's when things get really hard. And I've seen a lot of gym owners, you know, they're…
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Nic Johnston: they're opening up a facility for the first time, or they're trying to bring a staff in before that's set. I think that's when a lot of problems come up, so it's taking that extra bit of time to find the right people that can grow into a role, rather than those that may be the best on paper, if that makes sense.
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PushPress: That makes total sense. That's great. Hey, we had someone raise their hand. Would you guys be willing to take a question live?
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Dwight Upshaw: Yeah.
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PushPress: Depends. Chelsea. Yeah, depends. Alright, Chelsea, I'm gonna unmute you, or ask you to unmute, if you had a question. I know you raised your hand, but I'm not sure if that actually means you have a question.
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Chelsea Burge: I'm so sorry, I think I accidentally raised my hand, but I'm loving all… I'm loving all of this because I'm in a huge growth spurt right now in our gym, and I'm, like, I'm looking for two to three coaches. I have, like, 5 people that are interested, so I guess I guess I could ask this question, like.
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Chelsea Burge: What, as far as hierarchy, how would you, like, rank who you want to bring on as a coach if you have 5 people that you're pulling from that are all planning to go to their level 1 in the next month?
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PushPress: Oh, that's a phenomenal question.
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Chelsea Burge: Is it culture? Is it, like, performance, consistency in the gym? Like, I'm trying to decide between…
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PushPress: It's basically… I just know you just go with the person that has the biggest snatch.
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Dwight Upshaw: I actually… I love that. I will say, so I've run into this, and honestly, I will say it was actually from… you learn from your biggest mistakes.
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Dwight Upshaw: And I will say that I ended up hiring the person that was technically
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Dwight Upshaw: You would have looked at them and been like, they have more experience, they seem like they have more of, like, the leadership quality, they have more of the technical expertise, but…
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Dwight Upshaw: Their enthusiasm, drive, and hunger.
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Dwight Upshaw: was there, but, like, not as, big as what I would say I had in another individual who also matched in terms of their motivation, they were hungry, they really wanted to learn, but they were, like, super green.
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Dwight Upshaw: And I will say I went with the person that I felt like could fill the role faster.
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Dwight Upshaw: that looked like they already had the leadership quality, they were in it, but they didn't have as much hunger and desire and willingness to, like, give to the community, which I think ultimately builds the culture, because they are living it, they're breathing it, and they're excited for it.
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Dwight Upshaw: And, I actually am really stoked for this person, because they're now a head coach at another gym, but I didn't hire them, and, at that time, they hung around as a member for a while, and then actually when I left to go to Proven, they ended up jumping to another gym, and then starting coaching there, and then they ended up becoming a head coach there, so I actually, like, feel very, like, stoked for this individual, but now I'm seeing, like, that was the potential that this person, like, had.
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Dwight Upshaw: And they're a very good coach at another gym, they've grown it, they've done a really good job, and it's something that's really cool. And that other coach kind of whittled out because they didn't have the same motivation,
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Dwight Upshaw: that that one coach had. So I would say, for me, I think that you go after the person that shows the most hunger, who has the charisma, who knows the members, and who's willing to put in the work more than anything else.
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PushPress: That makes total sense, that sounds good. Chelsea, hopefully that answers your question, and I will get to that question or those comments in the chat. Excellent, good to hear that. And Tom, I see that you raised your hand, but I'm gonna save you for the Q&A at the end. Real quick, what has been, Nick, Dwight, what has been the most valuable source for
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PushPress: Proven, as a company, For finding good.
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Dwight Upshaw: This is gonna be different than gyms, for sure.
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PushPress: This makes sense, but I'm just curious.
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Nic Johnston: Well, yeah, it's interesting, though, because it's really the same, man, because referrals has been the number one thing, and it's funny, because it's a little bit backwards. When Shane started the company with Tia, Dwight and I were the first two candidates.
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Nic Johnston: And it was all just job boards and social media postings, and we just… to be honest with you, like, I'd love to talk us up, but we got lucky. With how many applicants came through, the fact that we even got to the fact… like, to get you an interview with Shane and them, it was amazing. But the more we move along in this, I would say it's the complete opposite. The only people that have stuck around, and we've got a really high retention rate with our staff, which has been amazing, and Dwight and I have seen it grow.
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Nic Johnston: Over the years.
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Nic Johnston: The only kind of issues we've had with some individuals in the past have come from direct job boards or people that we didn't have direct referrals from, which has been, you know, it's been the one link to where everyone that has either been…
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Nic Johnston: Connected to us personally, or somebody has, been in a past
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Nic Johnston: field, and obviously the CrossFit world is a little bit smaller, so it makes it a little bit easier, but I think referrals are the number one
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Nic Johnston: way to go, because you get that direct connection from a human that you trust, somebody that may have had a good experience with them in the past, and it cuts through that, just like Chelsea was saying, you just… you don't know until you know, right? Like, and it's good and bad, but if you can kind of cut that learning curve down a little bit and bring some people in that you've had experiences with, other people that you trust have had experiences with, that's what we found to be the best.
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PushPress: I love it. And so, between, you know, as a gym owner, between my own members and staying ahead of the curve, building the bench before the seat is empty, I love that line, right? It's just… and just looking at my membership and planting the seed early on, between that and the job boards, and then referrals.
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PushPress: You should be able to have a steady drip of
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PushPress: good candidates from which to pull from. But once you get the candidates, do you guys have… have you found best practices for vetting, for proven culture?
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Nic Johnston: Yeah, yeah, for us, to be honest with you, it's been… just like I said before, hiring really slow is what we've learned, and it's been tough because we've…
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Nic Johnston: we've just grown so fast where you want to move quickly on those kind of decisions, and we've done that in the past, and like I said, I have no issues in being humble and saying we've failed plenty, and we've learned a lot from it, but it's… again, if you don't make the changes in the future, you just…
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Nic Johnston: you don't learn at all. But what we found is
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Nic Johnston: Spending more time with these people that have a passion for not only your culture as a company, but for the job that they may move into is number one. And, you know, that may mean…
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Nic Johnston: that we go through a little bit more of a trial period, and we make sure that people on a personal and professional level fit into what we're doing. That's been what we found to be most successful. And I think Dwight and I have even been through that in our own positions, to where early on, it was, hey, let's make sure this is the right fit for you guys. I know this is a big move before you…
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Nic Johnston: uproot your lives and move out here and make a big change that way. Let's make sure it's the right position for you. And before just…
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Nic Johnston: you know, the general business world is a much different place, because people will… they'll go on a job board, they'll have their interview, they'll sit down, and they'll get hired, right? Hopefully that's the way that it goes, and sometimes that means moving your family, and you sit in an office, and it works out, and it's great.
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Nic Johnston: for us in the fitness world, you have to start looking at this on a much more personal level, right? Because everybody that we deal with
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Nic Johnston: is coming to us either to better their lives, or better their fitness journey, or get to know us on a much deeper level than just business. So it takes some more time to get in those interpersonal relationships to where we want to make sure that they're the right people from day one. And when I say day one, it means maybe month three, month four, and if it takes that long to find they're the right person, great. If they feel like it's not a good fit for them short-term, that means
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Nic Johnston: we don't have to deal with that long-term either. So, you know, you find the good and the bad with it, but I think taking your time is really what matters.
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PushPress: That makes a ton of sense. And Dwight, the questions that you have up here, are these questions to help facilitate you learning those aspects of the individual more… more clearly?
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Dwight Upshaw: Yeah, I put up these questions as, like, when you get into the interview process, specifically on, like, the gym side, when you're hiring a coach, I like to have just someone… for one, honestly, I like some open-ended ones, and I like to try to say… I want to say… less.
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Dwight Upshaw: And let them speak to them a little bit more, so I can kind of, like, hear where they want to go with things, rather than feeling like I'm directing them. And then they're trying to match what I want.
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Dwight Upshaw: If that makes sense, because I want to see where their motivations are, as a good sense. And so, like, what motivates you to coach? It's like, I'd like to actually just listen to that. They might even answer a few of these questions when it's like, what is the real reason you're in here? What are you actually trying to do? Are you trying, you know…
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Dwight Upshaw: I want to hear someone that really has aspirations and goals, and wants to move up and go, not just the person that's like, you know what, I just like helping people, and I love being part of this community, and I want to do 2-3 hours so that, like, I can, you know, help. It's like, I kind of like the person that, like, really is like, you know, I want to be in, I want to grow a business, I want to build my coaching repertoire, I want to learn from people, I want to grow, I'd love continuing education, etc, like.
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Dwight Upshaw: Those type of things, where it's like, I see the person that wants to grow with us, not just fill, like, an hour.
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Dwight Upshaw: Yeah, exactly.
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PushPress: Exactly.
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Dwight Upshaw: He's kind of like a beer.
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PushPress: It's super interesting, question number 5. Can you go… can you go through that for me?
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Dwight Upshaw: Yeah, so, like, what gets you in front of the class and makes you really coach people? So…
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Dwight Upshaw: There's a difference between showing up and coaching.
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Dwight Upshaw: like, a huge difference, right? There's a… there's a check the box, you showed up, you facilitated a workout where it's like, people kind of knew what they were doing, right? It felt led, it was there, there was nothing wrong with it, but no one comes out
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Dwight Upshaw: Of that class with anything other than the fact that they, like, got a workout in.
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Dwight Upshaw: Right? And so, like, that question for me actually tells me a little bit more of, like, what really motivates you to be in front of the class and really coach. Like, what… what do you love about it? And, you know, it's like, my thing is, is, like, with programming side, it's like, I like to program to make people coach more, and I want…
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Dwight Upshaw: coaches to, like, look at a workout and be excited about, okay, this person's gonna get a PR here, they're gonna be able to move through this, they're gonna get their first muscle up, they're gonna learn how to kick up on a wall, right? They're gonna be excited about the thing. Like, what gets me in front of a class and what gets me most excited, is when someone, right, gets their first muscle up, right? Hits a snatch beautifully for the first time, and they understand now it's not scary anymore, it's actually something beautiful, right? I mean, I think the snatch is, like, my favorite movement, because when people
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Dwight Upshaw: finally get it, they're like, I love this. And honestly, it doesn't hurt. Yup.
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Dwight Upshaw: There, you know, there's, like, there's things like that, like, so what gets you in front of a class and makes you really coach people? I like to hear people say stuff like that. Like, come back to me and say, oh, man, like, I can't wait to, like, help someone get their first muscle up, or I really love to be in front of the class and, like, see everybody moving really well together. Like, you know, I think one of my biggest ones was when I was first coaching, and I had a class of 25 people.
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Dwight Upshaw: And, at the time we had 8 rings, and we were doing Nate.
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Dwight Upshaw: And people were waiting for rings.
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Dwight Upshaw: And I was like…
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Dwight Upshaw: And there was… everybody was on the wall, and there was 2 people on a boxed Paikan push-up, which meant that everybody was RX-ing the workout in a 25-person class for pretty much the majority, which was cool. And people were, like, waiting on rings to get up, and we had more than 8 people doing ring muscle-ups in a 25-person class, which I feel like, for most people nowadays, like, they feel like that's hard, but I felt like it was really cool, because it's like, I'd coached all these people, and I knew
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Dwight Upshaw: almost every single one of them, and seeing their first ring muscle-up, and then now seeing them do them in classes, like, that's the type of stuff that gets me fired up, that, like, wants me to keep doing it, and keep being in front of people, is, like, you see this empowerment
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Dwight Upshaw: of people is, like, my… what gets me in front of the class. And so I want to hear people, like, I want to empower people, I want to be excited, I want to see people's journey.
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Dwight Upshaw: Right? Not just, I want to be here to get a membership, you know, so that I can keep working out.
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PushPress: Yeah, that's the…
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Dwight Upshaw: That is…
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PushPress: That is the thing, right? That's what we hear all the time. Nice. I love these interview questions. If you're watching this, or if you're listening to this, switch over to the video so you can see these questions, and maybe give a crack at them next time you have to sit someone down and vet them for a staff position. Drew, sorry, Drew. I don't know why I said Drew. Dwight, do you…
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PushPress: Do these questions change if it's a part-time versus full-time hire?
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Dwight Upshaw: Yeah, I mean, well, to some extent. I think that there's… there's still the…
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Dwight Upshaw: for the most part, I think that really, they stay basically the same. I think the, what do you be, like, want to be long-term, as a coach is something that, like, you still get some good answers from that, even from a part-time coach. They're like, hey, I want to stay part-time, but, I would love to learn more about this, and maybe start, like, a strongman class, right?
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PushPress: Yep.
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Dwight Upshaw: still be part-time, but, like, do something different and bring something to your gym, right? I actually kind of love that. I love that my part-time coaches maybe bring something that is different to the gym, that fills a need or creates a niche, rather than just filling an hour for those two hours, because it's like, that person actually now is providing more value than just two hours to your gym. They're providing another program.
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Dwight Upshaw: and another membership base. So…
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PushPress: Dwight, I think…
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Dwight Upshaw: huge for me, because, like, if someone wants to do something and grow out, right, and then be like, I only want to coach two to three hours, but I want it to be this.
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PushPress: That's gross
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PushPress: And actually, we had a question come in right as you were saying that. It's a perfect segue into that. Genesis is asking, how do you guys fill different roles with coaches? Do they coach and then do other stuff, or do you have them only coach and then you hire sales, retention, or specialty programs? Do you hire those things separately? So, have you…
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PushPress: seen…
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PushPress: Not a playbook, but have you seen where that is becoming more prevalent, or a skill set that more gym owners are seeking in their coaches to have
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PushPress: Again, experience and skills in other aspects of the gym business.
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Dwight Upshaw: I've seen it work both ways. In all honesty, my background comes from it being more segmented, and for me, it actually felt like it worked better. Truthfully, and I think Nick knows this, I'm trying to get better at it, but I just… I love to do what I do.
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Dwight Upshaw: Yep. Which is program, think about how the workouts lay out, what the coaches are going to be doing, like, visualizing everything, thinking about how the coaches are coaching something, thinking about progressions, building out what everything looks like, mapping it in my mind, and then…
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Dwight Upshaw: thinking about how I'm developing coaches and, like, what I'm doing there. I don't… I don't like the business side. I frick… I hate it. Like, honestly, I don't like looking at the numbers. I don't want to think about memberships. If someone at… like, I used to have it, like, we had a guy, Tom, running the gym. People would come up and ask about membership stuff, and it's like, dude, I hate talking about money. I'm like, dude, go talk to Tom.
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PushPress: Go talk to Tom.
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Dwight Upshaw: If you want to learn a muscle-up, or if you want to talk about coaching, or, like, how that class felt.
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Dwight Upshaw: come to me, like, talk to me about how the coaches made you feel, talk about how your vibe feels in the gym, are you happy, are you healthy, do you want to come back? That's what I want to hear.
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PushPress: Yep.
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Dwight Upshaw: I don't want to be both. I don't like wearing the two hats. I actually like leaning into what I do.
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Dwight Upshaw: And he was really good at being on top of all the membership stuff. He loved it. He wanted to think about, how am I bringing in more members? What's the membership retention tool? What are my reachbacks looking like? Am I tapping on this person that just went through base camp with Dwight? How did they like their coach? What was it? I can ask Dwight, hey, can you reach back out to that client to, like, talk to them about, like, this injury need, or, like, they have something that they're looking after, you know.
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Dwight Upshaw: whatever, and I'm like, cool, like, we have this good thing where there's good communication.
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Dwight Upshaw: But we're very much had our own roles.
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PushPress: Yep.
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Dwight Upshaw: And then I've had it times where, like, I've seen where people have had to wear multiple hats. But they're juggling it all, and they're having to think about it, and so, like, they do have to do it, but they have to have the availability, and they have to have the tools probably already underneath their belt. It's hard to learn it all at the same time, and be pulled in multiple directions, so…
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Dwight Upshaw: for me, I do think I would love it if we had someone that's more, hey, you are, like… and if they do do coaching plus a role, it's… that role is limited, it's not everything. Like, you know, you can't put too much on that other person, like, make them feel that one spot that's their role outside of coaching.
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Dwight Upshaw: crush it, right? Like, that's it. And then put it on someone else for some other things, and then that allows them to have more empowerment within that. But that's… that's my own, philosophy on that side. I don't know, Nick, if you have any other ideas on that side of things.
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Nic Johnston: Yeah, I think you have to be really flexible, right? Because, like we talked about before, every business is going to be different, and I think what I've learned, both on the gym side and also our business side, is
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Nic Johnston: there has to be a passion for growth from day one from whoever the owner, or let's call it a general manager, whoever's running the gym. It's gotta be there, right? Because if… if they're not willing to do all the jobs.
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Nic Johnston: then it's going to be really hard to find the person that's right for those different jobs, right? And I think that's where a lot of people go wrong when they look at hiring, is they want on day one to be handed 200 members, and they want,
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Nic Johnston: it's funny to me when gyms have, like, CFOs and CEOs, it's just like, you don't need all that. Let's just get to coaching, let's figure out what people do, and then when we get to a point that sustainably can grow, maybe we start putting people in higher positions where, you know, we open up a second location, or we're just crushing it, and we can do all these different things.
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Nic Johnston: I think people just need to be really cognizant of the fact that it takes a lot of hard work, right? From day one, you've just got to really grind to get to a point that
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Nic Johnston: That growth will create the opportunity to hire more people down the line, but if those people
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Nic Johnston: don't see your passion for the business, don't see the passion of the members to create really sustainable retention within the gym, you're never going to have a community that will grow into that, right? And I think you earn the right to put people in deeper positions as you grow, rather than just being given that on day one. I think that's what we see
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Nic Johnston: what makes, especially the CrossFit community so special, because
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Nic Johnston: Whether you've got 10 members or 500.
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Nic Johnston: people are there for a reason, and it's usually the people within the four walls, and not the equipment, or not the amenities, and gyms do a great job of that, but you go to a Planet Fitness, or one of these Crunch Fitnesses, whatever, you don't get that, right? Maybe you save a few bucks, but you're going to the next gym maybe six months later, because you're just not getting that extra feeling of love and care within the gym that you're going to, and that comes from the ownership.
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Nic Johnston: And I think you just have to be willing to go through those hard days from day one and learn my culture is my culture in my gym, and I need to make sure I'm fostering that with the people that I hire as well.
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PushPress: 100%, I love that. Cool. Dwight, after someone goes through this interview process, let's say they crush these questions, and you're like, boom, this is great. What's the rest of the… oh, you have it right here.
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Dwight Upshaw: Oh, no, no, no, I was gonna… yeah. So, this goes more into vetting, but I can… I can move past that. You're talking about retention?
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PushPress: Well, I mean, either yours. If you feel like there's more to vet, like, obviously.
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Dwight Upshaw: No, we've actually, like, really touched on it.
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Dwight Upshaw: pretty well, and I think, like Nick said, like, the referrals was such a huge thing. I mean, we're lucky that we have such good quality coaches that are, like, really thoughtful, so anybody that they refer to us, we kind of really believe, right? We kind of know in that. I will say, one thing that I think that a lot of your coaches, if you're coming from outside, is the… sorry.
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Dwight Upshaw: I don't know what I did here.
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Dwight Upshaw: Sorry.
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PushPress: You're good.
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Dwight Upshaw: I'm gonna get out, stop sharing.
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Dwight Upshaw: So…
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Dwight Upshaw: My… I'm gonna pull back up that chair in a second, but, my big thing with, like, the social media side, I do think that, like, people's social media presence is something that, like, I do actually still look at, and I think that we all do, and it's something that, like, you have to be concerned about in terms of, what you're thinking about, on the back end as, like, another vetting process, when I'm kind of looking at.
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Dwight Upshaw: So that was just something that, like, I was kind of, like, touching on, there. I do think that, basically, the questions, what you see in front of people, is kind of, like, our biggest spot in terms of, like, how we're looking at it.
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Dwight Upshaw: Cool. It was just kind of like a note to kind of touch on.
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PushPress: I like that. Have you ever have,
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PushPress: Have you ever gotten someone through the vetting process, or maybe you're taking them through the vetting process, and then there was a flag that was raised after the interview, where you're like, oh, maybe this person isn't the right fit? Or, like, where often… after the interview, where is the most often spot
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PushPress: Did that make sense? Am I saying that right?
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Nic Johnston: What's the…
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PushPress: that you most often note that someone may not be a good fit after the interview?
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Dwight Upshaw: Okay, so this comes into, like, how… like, how do we build people into our coaching, right? Right. Because it's like, you go through the interview process, you're gonna need to… because there's a difference between how people interview, what they say, and how they act on the floor, right?
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PushPress: Yeah.
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Dwight Upshaw: So, I do actually have, part of the interview process where I want people to… so, like, let's say they're an outside hire. They have a lot of coaching experience. It's going to be very different than an inside hire through your community of someone… so as Chelsea put out there, you know, she has 5 candidates that all want to get their Level 1 to try to coach.
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Dwight Upshaw: it's a very different process than someone that's coming in with 8 to 10 years of experience. So, as an example, like, I was talking to Zach before this call, who… I actually hired someone from Zach's Coach Development, who coached for him, Alyssa Morello.
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Nic Johnston: And…
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Dwight Upshaw: It was easy, because I was like, okay, for one, I know, that gym is good. I know that Zach knows what he's doing. I automatically am kind of, like, assuming, okay, this is a good hire. I want them to then…
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Dwight Upshaw: shadow two classes, and during the shadowing, honestly, I just want them to, like, see how they talk to members. I don't really care about coaching. I'm just like, hey, watch how I coach, watch what our community's like, watch what our culture's like, and talk.
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Dwight Upshaw: and be engaged with people. I don't… don't think about coaching right now. I just want you to get to know people, and I want to see how you are, right? As a person. That helps me huge.
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Dwight Upshaw: If that person has a really hard time engaging and, like, being a part of that, like, that's a big red flag. Okay. Are they gonna cultivate those relationships from the get-go, right? Once they've gone through some of those shadowing, then it's like, okay, I'm gonna have you lead, you know, maybe just the warm-up, or the breakout, or, you know, one piece of this next workout. I'll probably introduce you, I'll be like, hey, you know, this is a, you know.
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Dwight Upshaw: John, he's interviewing for this, you know, I'm gonna have him go through what the workout is, lead the warm-up, and then I'll take you guys through the rest, right? Like, and I'm just gonna see them kind of, like, how they kind of, like, tackle that, and then I'm gonna have them lead a full class, and I'm gonna be their secondary working through it, and at that same time, I want my other coaches to jump into that class. I want them to feel that out.
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Dwight Upshaw: Right, so that they get, like, a feeling of what it feels like to be a member within that class, and I want them to, for one, also don't talk during that time frame, like, don't jive with all the members, because, you know, sometimes your coaches are, like, a little bit too nonchalant. They're like, no, just act like another member, right?
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Dwight Upshaw: And so that, for me, from an outside hire, is how I… where you see
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Dwight Upshaw: Is this person right for my gym?
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Dwight Upshaw: coming through, and it's… it's what it is, it's the role that you're putting them in. Yeah.
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PushPress: I like that entire process.
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Dwight Upshaw: relationship. From the inside out.
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Dwight Upshaw: I would say that I do longer shadow periods from a person that's a level 1, like, just getting their level 1 in coaching. I want to have a full process where they're shadowing, and again, in the first and foremost, they're there, and I want them to just observe, but I'm going to be like, hey, you need to be ready for me to ask you a question. I'm looking at this person, I'm like, hey, this person has a knee issue, we're going into back squat. What's your scale? What's your modification? Where are we going to be at? This person's had some sciatica. Okay, like, where are we going to be going?
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Dwight Upshaw: with this thing. This person has a shoulder injury, we're going into snatches today. Like, where are you going to modify this person? I don't need you to, but I need you to have an answer right then, and know where you're going with that. And so during the shadow process, I'll work through that. Then I'll start layering on warm-ups, then I'll start layering on the whiteboard briefs. Then you'll start layering on more specifics, leading full classes, and depending on the person and who that is, I actually, again, I don't think it has to be a clear rule. I used to have a clear rule that
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Dwight Upshaw: It was 30 shadow hours, and then, like, you know, 20
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Dwight Upshaw: led classes, and then you were in, and you were coaching. I now will say, like, some people can move up a little faster, some people might require more time. If you require more time, I actually think that, like, there's a chance you probably don't make sense.
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Dwight Upshaw: And so, through that process, you really want to get, okay, are they connecting with members? Are they staying intentional, and are they actually staying present? Presence is massive.
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Dwight Upshaw: people like to check out a lot. I think, you know, we have ADHD naturally because of our phones now.
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PushPress: Yeah.
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Dwight Upshaw: And it happens where you're, like, you know, you're bobblehead, you're all over the place, you're not engaged, you're not actually focused on things, and you need to be ready for any question that I might ask you, or to be able to jump in and lead a movement whenever I ask you, or understand what are the cues, the progressions, what are we trying to do with each movement, right? And what are we looking for, or what are the type of cues that will get people into better positions?
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Dwight Upshaw: And I might ask those along the way, and I like to quiz people just quickly as I walk through if they're shadowing. And that's where I get it.
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PushPress: want to highlight what you just said for anybody that's listening, watching. Those three words that you used, connection.
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PushPress: Intention?
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PushPress: Right? And then, what was the third one?
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PushPress: Oh, man, connection, intention, and presence. You, as an owner, you could literally just write those three words on a piece of paper, and read those words, and look at the person as they're coaching or going through your pipeline, and if those 3 words don't match up with those behaviors.
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PushPress: That should give you a pause. That should give you a red flag, hey, you need to talk to this person, or you need to clarify, what…
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PushPress: what standard… what your expectations are, right? Those… I think those are 3 very powerful words in this entire, scenario. That was great, dude.
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PushPress: What about retention? How do we keep… oh, Nick, you got something, go for it.
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Nic Johnston: No, yeah, I think just built on that, you know, when I saw what we were talking about here last week, I gave it a thought of, like, what's one thing
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Nic Johnston: that I've learned the most in hiring over the last few years, and what it came down to was, I think too many times, especially as we're growing fast, and we want to make things happen, and, you know, our goal is to get to a certain point, we want hires to work.
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Nic Johnston: Right? Like, subconsciously, we get in this mode of, like, we don't look at their bad attributes, and we just want to put them in a position because we think they're the right person. You know, that's where I started off in my position, and I've moved now to, just like Dwight was saying.
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Nic Johnston: I want people to fail during the interview process, and I want to see how they react to it, because I don't care if they fail early on. They're going to learn if they're the right person, but you're going to learn a lot more from somebody failing early, and how they respond to that failure than you will from
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Nic Johnston: poxing them along and putting them, the safety blanket up of giving them everything they need right away, right? So I think throwing people under the fire, if that's one thing I could give everyone listening, that's my advice, right? Put them in positions to fail, knowing they probably will fail, and you're going to learn the most out of who those people are.
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Nic Johnston: where they come from and what's possible for them in the future. And I think, like you mentioned before, you know, people, whether they're part-time, full-time, anyone in between.
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Nic Johnston: We're all going in the same direction, whether you're coaching 1 or 10 classes a week, and we want the same thing out of that person from start to finish in each class. Like Dwight was saying, let's say you're coaching 30 hours a week.
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Nic Johnston: just because you're tired at hour 30 doesn't mean you can't bring the same energy, right? And we want that no matter what kind of coach we're trying to hire. So put them in those hard positions, and if it's hard for them, and it feels like they can't even do the interview process, then you're… you have your answer there anyways, right? Because they can't even…
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Nic Johnston: It's at the easiest portion of the process, when you want to be hired and you want to bring your best foot forward, you should have those people wanting to go the extra mile at that point, and you're going to learn a lot about them.
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PushPress: Yeah, that's actually… that could be… that can be very scary for an owner. Like, hey, put them in a position to fail, and I know a lot of owners will… will think, well, if this person fails, then I'm failing, because I'm not going to get that hire, and I want the hire, and that… that's a perspective that might need to be flipped for many people that are in this process, looking for
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PushPress: looking for a new employee. Is there…
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PushPress: Nick, touching on that, and then Dwight, then I'll… I'm sorry, then I'll let you continue. Nick, do you… do you think owners should tell their potential hires that that's what they're doing? Like, hey, you might fail at this, and that's okay, do you think they should give them a heads up? Or…
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Nic Johnston: I think it depends on your style as a leader, right?
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Nic Johnston: If you're newer, and maybe you want to, like, feel out some people that…
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Nic Johnston: you think are a good fit for the culture, and I guess, like, it depends on where that lead comes from as well, right? If it's a very personal referral, and you want to talk through those things, good. For me, personally, no. I think you just do it, and you see how they respond, knowing that this could be a failure.
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Nic Johnston: But making sure that the circumstances and the framework in which they fail isn't detrimental to your business, right? I think that's the most important thing.
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Dwight Upshaw: Good.
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Nic Johnston: So you have to… you have to be smart enough to put them in a position where if they fail.
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Nic Johnston: My members aren't going to lose anything exponential out of this hour of their life that they come here for, so maybe it's internal failure, and maybe it's in the interview process, you have some questions that you just want to see how they're going to answer them.
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Nic Johnston: Or maybe you throw them into a coach's meeting, where all the coaches know what's going on, and you tell the coaches to dig into them a little bit, and you ask the questions that may bring some failure out, and you want to see how they respond to those things. So I think that's the bigger aspect of this, if you are comfortable in being a leader and owning your business, and you feel like you can set those parameters early.
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Nic Johnston: Make them fail as much as possible. Throw them right.
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PushPress: in the fight.
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Nic Johnston: And just see what happens.
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PushPress: That's an incredible distinction.
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Dwight Upshaw: And I would say that that is, huge, like, what Nick was saying, it kind of depends on where your hierarchy comes from, too. Like, I said, like, Chelsea's a good example, 5 people going through Level 1, coming up and in. When you're going through, like, those questions that I ask on the side, I expect failure. You know, it's a person that you're actually, like, teaching to coach.
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Dwight Upshaw: So you're like… and I might tell them, like, hey, like, it's okay to have a wrong answer, but I need you to have a thoughtful answer. So, I think the only wrong answer is one where someone wasn't actually thinking, but if someone's thinking and they have a reason why, then you're like, okay, it's not really wrong, but, like, could it be better? So that's fine, right? And it's failing where it's safe to fail, you're not messing with members.
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Dwight Upshaw: as a good way to go about it. And so that would be, like, kind of one of those things where it's like, I expect it along the way. When they're leading a warm-up, maybe it's, like, a little disjointed, or, like, the vibe is, like, a little bit off. Your members are gonna be like, this person's learning, and it's just a warm-up, it's cool, like, Dwight's gonna take over after this, like, it's not a big deal, right? Like, you have those type of things. If it's an outside hire, and you're having them shatter, and you kind of get it, you kind of have your idea of whether or not
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Dwight Upshaw: they're gonna be good to, like, lead a class after they've shadowed. Maybe you've had them try to be like, hey, can you just, like, help coach this one person that's new over this side, and you see how they're kind of, like, handling it, tackling it. And that's in a very new setting from a member that's new, so they're, you know, they're less…
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Dwight Upshaw: critical. I would say, like, some of your older members, if you have someone coach them, they already, like, have their ideas, expectations, so they actually might judge harsher, in terms of, like, how that person's coaching. So there are certain ways where you can kind of put out there where it's, like, failure's okay, you can see how it happens, and you can see how they, like, maybe move through it.
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PushPress: This is gold, guys. This is great stuff. I hope everybody… I hope you guys are all taking notes when you're listening, right?
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PushPress: Alright, let's, let's move to retaining staff members, because it's just, like, retaining staff members is just as important as retaining members, retaining current, like, paying members. One to three big ticket items for retaining, your best staff.
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Dwight Upshaw: Cool, so I put it out here on a slide, I think it should be shared, right, guys?
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PushPress: Yep, you're good.
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Dwight Upshaw: My big thing, and I think that this really comes from, especially, like, with the way that we've kind of done things at Proven, in terms of something that, like, I brought in further, which is setting the standard and having, like, a real understanding of what the standard is, it really bleeds into having,
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Dwight Upshaw: you know, a set practice, and roles and responsibilities, and an understanding of what the… what your job is, how you're gonna match it, and what the standards are in place. If you don't set that from
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Dwight Upshaw: the forefront, people will fail in the wrong way, right? If you set the standard, if you acknowledge what it is, if you know, you know, if they know their roles, responsibilities, what their expectations are, they can succeed.
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Dwight Upshaw: And you need to put that out there, and that builds retention because it builds empowerment. It also makes the coach feel like they have ownership of whatever they're doing. Even, like, you would think that ownership comes from just, like, giving them free flow to do their own thing.
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Dwight Upshaw: That's not ownership, right? Ownership comes from being able to feel that role to the best of their capability, based on what you need, and if you tell them what you need, if you teach them how to do it, if you set the standard, and they know how to meet that standard, they feel…
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Dwight Upshaw: part of something bigger. Like, I would say that that's something, like, that we have at Proven, where it's like, we all have a standard that we're trying to meet, and we're trying to meet those expectations between each other, between the coaches, and match them, and we feel
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Dwight Upshaw: better because of the whole. Because we're all trying to meet that standard, and if you build that within your culture, within your team, you're gonna have higher retention, because everybody feels this build and this growth as a group.
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Dwight Upshaw: So that would be, like, a huge thing for me, is, like, setting the standard and really laying it out there so that coaches are empowered to be able to handle that.
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PushPress: I love that. That makes a ton of sense. That's super powerful for the… the… the team aspect. Yep, I love that.
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Dwight Upshaw: And then, you know, again, I said empower before, I think invest, like, I think that you need to be able to give, your coaches the availability to grow. Like, if they have an idea, they have something they want to do within their gym that's going to build your gym up, don't knock them down, let them build themselves as part of it, as part of your gym. Give them, like.
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Dwight Upshaw: The best way to describe it is almost like grow their own brand, to some extent, within your gym, so that it's not just you, and then they're working for you.
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Dwight Upshaw: It's like you are a part of a team, and you're as concerned about their success as they are about yours, and if you empower and invest in your coaches, they will continue to invest in your business, and it grows it. So, my thing is, is like, let them run seminars, right? If someone has, like, an expertise, be like, hey, would you like to do this? And you can make some extra money that way, too. Like, grow yourself, like, it's your expertise, you're gonna run this.
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Dwight Upshaw: this thing, awesome. You know, let them build a program. So, I actually got into coaching.
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Dwight Upshaw: by starting an endurance program, because I came from a triathlon background and a rowing background.
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Dwight Upshaw: And so, I built a program, and I ran with it, and then I built a teens program, and I ran with it, and then I became a head coach. I actually, like, put myself into the role of head coach through building programs within a gym.
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Dwight Upshaw: And that was actually more that built up their gym.
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Dwight Upshaw: by providing something that they didn't already have, and I wanted to… I made myself a role, and did it. And if you allow people to do that, you actually wind up having more than what you actually, like, had bargained for with that. So, like, let them do that, and then lean into how do you develop someone to have personal training? So, for one, the members are paying their salary, and you're not.
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Dwight Upshaw: Which is kind of a great way to go about it. So if you're allowing them to, like, build a program, run some seminars, build some personal training, they're actually growing their own brand within your culture, and if you
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Dwight Upshaw: know, and you're empowering them, and you're like, I see your potential.
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Dwight Upshaw: they're feeling that. At the same time, do they want to go out and have, you know, continuing education, go after something and learn something new? And you're going to either help them with that, or pay for it, and give them a stipend, especially for long-time coaches. They feel like you're actually really invested in their growth, and again, you invest in theirs, they're going to invest in yours. It looks like it's all one-sided, where you're just worried about what they're giving to your gym.
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Dwight Upshaw: and not what you're giving back to them. Those people…
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Dwight Upshaw: We'll find a way to probably whittle themselves out and leave.
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PushPress: That makes total sense, and it's almost like…
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PushPress: I can hear a gym owner in the back of my mind saying, well, what if someone never… what if one of my staff members never wants to do these things? And I'm thinking in the back of my head, like, well, then you didn't hire the right person to begin with, maybe. Or, maybe you… some of your behaviors as an owner makes them think that those things aren't welcome or wanted at that business.
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PushPress: So, make sure that, like.
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PushPress: Make sure that you, as an owner, you are giving your staff room to have the thoughts of building and owning something, as opposed to just… this… and I'm speaking from experience, because this is something that I used to do when I first opened up. I would just tell everyone how and what to do everything.
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PushPress: And that's… that's one of the quickest ways to destroy,
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PushPress: ingenuity, innovation, trust, and motivation. But I do like the promote and protect balance, giving someone a clear path to grow and develop beyond where they start. I think that, for a lot of people, is… or for a lot of gym owners, is where
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PushPress: They… they don't provide vision for their staff to do anything more than what they were initially hired to do.
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PushPress: And I think that's…
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PushPress: the lowest hanging fruit. Like, if you can provide just that vision to your staff, they will be way more likely to just stay around and try to achieve those things. I think we do that naturally as humans.
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PushPress: Cool, I love this entire framework that you've gone over. If…
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PushPress: Nick, Dwight, if I was a gym owner that wanted to do my first hire within the next quarter, within the next 3 months, 90 days, what is the biggest thing that I need to take away from this webinar?
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Nic Johnston: You know, I would say from number one, you gotta have your missions, your visions, your values at the very top, and you have to have those very clearly…
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Nic Johnston: and concisely, Put in front of your staff, and what
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Nic Johnston: don't have a staff or you're not, you have to have that in place before you hire anyone, right? Because then you have to have that north star of what you're working towards. And I think that goes back to the retention piece as well. Whether the gym is doing great, or maybe you're in a hard patch, if you can create that culture where you have the mission and the vision in front of you.
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Nic Johnston: people are going to want to help you get there, and you're going to want to have a team that's all working in the same direction. So, if you're looking for that person to hire, just make sure you're doing it for the right reason, and make sure you're going towards people that help you get to where you want to go, and mostly…
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Nic Johnston: that are not tied to external goals, right? Like, you should have a vision as a company, and as a brand, and as a gym that is getting you towards your ultimate goal, no matter what the ecosystem is doing, what external factors are happening. I think for us, you know, at Proven.
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Nic Johnston: we want to just elevate human performance in any way possible, right? Like, for us, we started in CrossFit, and now it's High Rocks, and it could be something else in two years, but whatever we can do to help people get better in their fitness journeys, and whether they're first time walking into our affiliate in Nashville, or they're standing on top of the podium like Tia.
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Nic Johnston: That vision and that mission for us is the exact same, and that kind of guides everything that we do from hiring all the way to the athletes that we bring in.
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PushPress: That's awesome. What about you, Dwight? What's your number one?
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Dwight Upshaw: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, Nick pretty much hit it on the head. With that, it's, you know, like this says, build a team on purpose. You need to know why and who you're hiring. Like, what are we hiring for? And we're hiring for someone that meets the standard, builds the community, and matches our culture.
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Dwight Upshaw: And you need to understand what that is and have that mission statement of understanding who you are and what that culture is. And if you don't understand what your culture is or what you're trying to cultivate, you can't hire the right people.
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Dwight Upshaw: So you need to know that, you need to find it, and then you hire the right people for that. So it's… set that expectation, and have an understanding who you're hiring and why you're hiring.
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PushPress: I love it. That's great.
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PushPress: Cool. Do you guys have any, other parting wisdom for our owners looking to hire people?
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PushPress: Anything off the top of your head? Because if you don't, I would love to open this up for Q&A. I know we had a couple hands go up, during the… during the livecast, and I did not call on them, so if anybody has any other questions, you can put it in the Q&A, you can put it in the chat, or raise your hand. But other than that, I did want to talk,
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PushPress: Is there another slide that you can go to? Awesome. I do want to let everybody know about this. I, I asked for a favor for,
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PushPress: for the people that registered for this awesome webinar, and you guys, Dwight, Nick, you were gracious enough to offer this up for… there is a 33% coupon, right? And I can't overstate the value here. If you guys use the code that's on the screen right here, you're gonna get $150 off your first 3 months for
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PushPress: for the affiliate programming, and we do have… and this is for people that are currently on PushPress.
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PushPress: However, if you're not currently on push press, book a demo and mention this offer, and we have another offer that we're willing to combine with this on the PushPress side. So I did want to put that out there. Dwight, Nick, thanks for doing this for everybody, all the listeners, and all the people that are, getting the recording.
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PushPress: I did not have any other questions come through Q&A. So, Nick, Dwight, where should people go? Oh, wait, here we go, Sam, Samantha. For coaches that run seminars, build programs, do PT, what split payment do you suggest that satisfies both parties?
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PushPress: Hmm.
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Dwight Upshaw: So, this is a… this is a huge thing. Actually, it's funny, when we were talking about coach development and the affiliate side of things, we've thought about having two separate times so we can talk to owners and talk to coaches, so that we don't wind up, like, knocking on both of it. But, I do think it kind of depends on what the thing is. So, as an example.
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Dwight Upshaw: Is it the gym that's promoting it, marketing it, developing it, and then telling a coach to run it?
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Dwight Upshaw: Okay? Or, is it someone that's, like, just this, hungry, you know, big, like, they're a self-starter, they develop everything, they're putting it out, they're talking to all the members, they're doing everything. And they're literally gonna run it at a time that you're not hosting anything else in your gym?
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Dwight Upshaw: It's very different. I almost think that, like, if that person's doing it, it's, like, 75-25.
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PushPress: Yep.
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Dwight Upshaw: If they're running it, they're doing it, they're using your gym, 75-25 split makes sense, because they're literally giving you something for free, pretty much. You're not… you're, like, the gym's closed, you're not even doing it, they're doing it on a Sunday, right? If you're someone that, like, you're… as a gym, you have an idea. You're like, I want to run this thing. I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna market it, I'm gonna put it on social, I'm gonna do all the things for it, right? And then I'm gonna have someone just run an hour-long seminar and coach it.
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Dwight Upshaw: I almost think it's the other way. It's like 75-25 the other split, because you're gonna get more than your coaching hour, but you're basically just doing a coaching hour, and I'm doing all the marketing, all the headway, I'm building the program, and I'm doing it for you, basically, and then you all just show up for the hour.
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Dwight Upshaw: you have to be more prepared, and you're gonna be putting in more time before that hour, because it's a seminar, and you're putting in more content there, so you should get more than your hour pay, or whatever that would be. Probably closer to, like, a personal training rate should be actually where you probably hit that. But if it's… but if you guys continue to grow it, and then you grow it with the person, they're gonna get more out of it. But I think if you have a self-starter that wants to run it all, that's, like, nothing on you.
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Dwight Upshaw: And they can do a bunch of it, and they give you all the marketing tools, and they just say, hey, can you post this for me?
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Dwight Upshaw: Massive.
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Dwight Upshaw: I think that's phenomenal. Two cents on that one.
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Nic Johnston: Yeah, building off that, Sam, just real quick, too, I think give your coaches the opportunity to…
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Nic Johnston: come up with these ideas on their own, right? Like, if there's somebody that is really creative, and they can come up with a new structure that maybe you haven't even thought of, be open to new ideas. Because I think I've even had employees in the past of.
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Nic Johnston: I'm not gonna cut you off from freedom, and Dwight's been in this boat before, of like, hey, you got a good idea? Bring it to me, let's talk through it, let's make it make sense, and let's make sure that everyone is happy in the long run, because you don't want to put somebody in a position where it seems like it's a good opportunity for them, but you're just…
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Nic Johnston: making more money for you on the back end, and then they never want to do it again, right? We want to have longevity in these things as well, and you don't want to… you don't want to walk over dollars to pick up pennies when, you know, if this creates more retention in your gym, but you have to…
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Nic Johnston: or you get to pay your coach a little bit more on top of that, and the members are happier, that keeps people around longer, and your lifetime value for those members is going to go up even more. So I wouldn't be so concerned on making a dollar here or there if it gets your members excited, it gets your coaches excited, and it keeps them around longer.
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PushPress: Yep, that's awesome. That is phenomenal.
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PushPress: Nick, Dwight, where should people go if they want to learn more about the affiliate program or Proven in general?
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Dwight Upshaw: So we have, if you just come to our website, and you go to provenfitness.com, hit the affiliate side of things, you'll see where we're at, you'll kind of see a little bit of an overview, but also, I am always, on, and so if you email me, Dwight Upshaw at provenfitness.com, and send me an email with questions, what you have, anything that you want to see, samples, whatnot, I always get back to people within the day.
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Dwight Upshaw: And I'm more than willing to kind of, like, go back and forth, and even, you know, jump on a call. You know, I can't jump on calls all day long, but I can jump on calls.
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Nic Johnston: Nice.
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Dwight Upshaw: To kind of go over, usually, like, more, like, specific cases of someone that's, like, has a little bit, like, a different and kind of wondering about how everything ties in together.
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PushPress: Perfect. Awesome.
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Nic Johnston: Yeah, and come see us in Nashville. Yeah, come see our gyms. We'd love for you to come out and.
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PushPress: I am looking for another excuse to get out there, because I've heard such tremendous things from the grand opening that you guys did out in Nashville.
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PushPress: I've seen pictures, I've seen video, and as soon as I can convince my wife, I will be out there. Dwight, Nick, thank you so much for joining us, and thank you to everyone who tuned in for this. If you registered for this, you will be getting the recording, and stay tuned for the next PushPress webinar coming in late July. Talk to you guys then. Thanks, guys.
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Nic Johnston: sec.
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Dwight Upshaw: Thanks.
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