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Zach Forrest, PushPress: So… Officially kicking off. Welcome, everyone!
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Today, I'd like to cut through some noise that's surrounding High Rocks. I think there's a ton of buzz out there right now, rightly so, but I don't want to talk about anything theoretical or, you know, feely-feel. I want to talk about practical stuff. We've pulled in two phenomenal gym owners.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: who have actually built HIROX programs from the ground up, and it has made a, let's say, noticeable difference in their membership numbers. So, by the end of this, my goal is for you to have clarity on whether or not you
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: would be successful by implementing a High Rocks program at your gym, and to give you some very simple first steps in making that a reality for your gym. We're gonna do so by talking through the two examples. One with Brad Raysby, who runs Rally Point Endeavors in Northbrook, right outside of Chicago. Is that right, Brad?
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Brad Raysby: That's right.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Do you guys have warm weather there yet? Is it too early in the year for warm weather?
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Brad Raysby: It's very rainy and humid this week, so…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Perfect.
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Brad Raysby: It's perfect for…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: running outside in High Rocks, right? Yeah.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: So, you've built what we call an event-anchored model, and we're gonna go into that, and it basically means that your program is organized
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Around races, and not just the classes.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Right? Is that what we… what we discussed? Cool, so I'm really excited to talk about that. Paul, you run Chelsea Athletica outside, or in Chelsea, Quebec, right? And it's a little bit different market, a little bit… and you took a little bit different path. You integrated Hyrox.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Classes and programming directly into your pre-existing class structure.
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Paul Markhauser: Correct, and we added one High Rocks class a week.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Awesome. So, we're gonna talk through how each of you guys kicked off those, those programs. We have two pretty drastic markets, and would it be fair, Brad, to say that you're in a suburban, or would you consider yourself more urban market?
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Brad Raysby: We are suburban, but it is still a pretty dense population-wise. We're not anywhere near rural.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Okay, cool. So, we have two pretty different markets.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: And two different approaches, but both of the approaches are working, and that's what we're gonna… we're gonna break down. So…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Did it click over?
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Nope, that's not what I wanted. There it goes. I'm telling you, these Zoom updates are killing me.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: For those of you that have been living under a rock.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: High Rocks is growing, and I get the question, first and foremost, it's like, hey, is this something that I even want to devote attention or energy to? And I… if you are a gym owner, I would say absolutely yes. Just for the simple fact you have
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: at this point, I think the statistic is 1.6 million participants globally. And it's still growing, that's the thing. So, I don't think…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: I don't think this is a trend that has peaked, because it's still on the way up, and more importantly, for many of you guys that are listening, especially the gym owners that are talking today.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: the format of HIROX is right at the intersection of the things that we already offer, whether that's general fitness, strength conditioning, running, or CrossFit. It casts a very wide net on the demographic that it appeals to. So, it would…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: make great sense if you have the resources and the desire to figure out how to implement a HIROX program.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Your members and their friends already… probably already know what HIROX is. The question is whether or not they're training for a High Rocks event at your gym. So, Brad, I'd love for you to speak about what actually prompted you
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: to start a HIROX program in the first place? Like, what was your motivation?
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Brad Raysby: Sure, so prior to COVID, we had a lot of members, there was a lot of boutique gyms popping up in the area, like the Orange Berries, F45s, and the like.
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Brad Raysby: And our members wanted to go partake, perhaps, in a class or two a week with their friends at these studios, and they were buying punch cards. So we implemented there before any knowledge of Hyrox, or the existence, perhaps,
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Brad Raysby: we diversified what we were doing so that we could offer that to our members. Not a CrossFit-like program, but something that was complementative. Along with that, it did help us with not only retention, but drawing our members' friends in to try CrossFit as well. And so that's where it started. And then post…
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Brad Raysby: COVID, in the fall of 22, we were looking for something that was hybrid endurance-focused for our members to train for. So, similar to how we have the CrossFit Open for our CrossFit athletes.
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Brad Raysby: We wanted something other than a road race for our enduro athletes to focus on. We took calls with Spartan Deca and High Rocks on the same day in September of 22, and we decided to go with High Rocks.
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Brad Raysby: There was a race within 6 weeks of us signing up as an affiliate, so it gave us a perfect opportunity to make it event-based.
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Brad Raysby: And we had, roughly a dozen members sign up for that race and compete on a very short turnaround.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: That's pretty cool. So you had a, one, you had a relevant event that was approaching for Hyroxy, but you… you had initially just seeked to fill the gap of
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: retaining members, or giving something for your current members to actually train for that wasn't just a, like, a 5K or a half marathon or whatever it was.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: That's cool. Paul, same thing for you at Chelsea Athletica, or was there a… was there a different impetus for starting the program?
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Paul Markhauser: Yeah, definitely different on our side of things.
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Paul Markhauser: we were only… we've only been open at our new location for 3 years. We're talking 2022, we weren't even at our… at our location, or not even a gym at that point. We only affiliated the High Rocks within the last year.
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Paul Markhauser: Prior to that, we were running…
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Paul Markhauser: unintentionally, similar class types to HIROX, like heavy endurance, there was always involving machines running, and then we saw High Rocks kind of take off the way it did in the past 2 or 3 years, so we…
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Paul Markhauser: jumped on the bandwagon, as I guess you could say. But we also… we're in an area where
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Paul Markhauser: endurance sports is huge, almost to a fault, where if the weather's nice, everybody's outside biking, running, and in the wintertime, skiing. So, like, our busy seasons are usually the in-between of…
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Paul Markhauser: skiing and biking season, so, like, the fall and the spring were always super packed, every class is at capacity. So that kind of felt… that fell nicely into, like, a cross-training for those people who are already a good runner or biker, who like to lift weights, so they would come to all of our strength and conditioning classes, but then they also are very competitive, too, so IROX fit nicely within there, so we'd kind of just…
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Paul Markhauser: Had all the equipment, most of the equipment already, we had to buy a couple things, and then started introducing those HIROC-specific classes, and…
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Paul Markhauser: really diving into that as the, the hype of High Rocks was increasing.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: That's… that's really cool. It sounds like both of you guys share in common the,
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: market fit for High Rocks as the race, so I know… I grew up in New Hampshire, so I know that there is a definite ski season. I did not know that there was a bike season. I just figured that was whenever it was not ski season. But so, one of the things that you guys both share, like I said, was
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Was, market fit in the sense that you guys had
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Already a pool of athletes, not necessarily at your gym, though, but maybe in the culture of the area that you guys are located in, that lended itself to
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: some sort of endurance aspect, or at least being outside, or… or running, as the most part. Like, so, Brad, you had your Endura program already going, and Paul, you said you're situated in a place that, I think you said, to a fault, prioritizes, like, endurance events, or endurance sports?
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: So that's, that's interesting to note, just for our listeners.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: So the… We're talking about
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: starting up, or whether or not it's a good fit. The problem that you guys should be thinking… High Rocks is whether or not High Rocks is a good fit. The problem that gym owners should be looking to solve with High Rocks is not one of,
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: you know, general adaptation and fitness, it's one of, hey, is this going to help me retain members, or is this going to help me acquire more members? And then I can give them the fitness or the training that they need as a result of anchoring the program.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: So, members with a goal stay longer. Paul, Brad, would you guys agree, when you have someone that is training for something specifically, they are more likely to stay longer than someone who is just exercising as a habit? I mean, that's… that could be a hot topic, but agree or disagree on that stuff?
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Most definitely. I love… you guys both said it at the same time. Yeah, I love that. So HIROX gives them a deadline, essentially. It's a race date, and you can use that to your advantage. And I know we're gonna talk about that specifically when we talk.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: about Brad's model, but it also opens up High Rocks, opens up a door to a demographic
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: that may not identify with your primary or your flagship program. It'll…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: it'll relate to those people who want something more than a structured Globo gym, but may not be willing to try CrossFit, or strength and conditioning, or whatever else it is that you're running as your flagship program.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Now, with that said, what I'd like to discuss are the differences between the two models. So, Brad, let's start with you real quick. You, you had a community going first, because you said you started this… did you start this before COVID?
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Brad Raysby: We started our Endure program prior to COVID, and then coming out of that, you know, in 2022, when things started to feel a little bit normal again, we started looking for an opportunity, and Hyrox was right there.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Okay, so explain to me how when you got off the call with High Rocks, and you noticed that the event was coming up in… was it 6 to 8 weeks? How far out was the event when you were like, hey, we're gonna do this, and we're gonna train for it?
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Brad Raysby: So there was an event 6 weeks out, which was in November, and then there was another event in Chicago coming up that following February. So it was a very quick turnaround for us to test the waters, with a 6-week program specific to individuals that signed up for the race.
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Brad Raysby: And then on top of that, we hosted… excuse me… we hosted High Rocks on New Year's Day to run a PFT, which is their performance fitness test.
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Brad Raysby: And we piggybacked off of that for an 8-week program. Each week focused on one of the eight stations, where we went through standards.
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Brad Raysby: strategy, and,
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Brad Raysby: complemented that single coaching session with a full week of programming outside of our class schedule. So the members had a choice. They can, if they signed up for that 8-week program leading to that second event in February, which we've done every single race now, and we've changed it slightly.
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Brad Raysby: Over time, but that first 8-week program leading to the February race allowed people to participate at their level. They did not have to sign up for the program, even if they signed up for the race. They could participate in the single coach session, and then attend classes throughout the week.
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Brad Raysby: And just to be clear, and I'll give you a quick breakdown of how we added… whenever you're ready for it, Zach. Let me know when you want me to go through how and when we implemented different changes to our schedule, but at that point in time, we did not run HIROX classes.
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Brad Raysby: We ran our Endure classes, we ran our CrossFit classes, and we ran a High Rocks specialty program.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Got you. I, well, let's talk about that when we get into, the programming, because I think that's probably where it'll fit best, because you have, in my opinion, something very…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: very robust, very unique going with your program, your five-track rotation, which we'll talk about. And I think you'll be able to talk about it then, but if not, we'll bring it up, definitely, because I think it's worth talking about. Paul, so you…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: you took…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: high rocks, and you're like, hey, we're already doing a lot of this stuff, so you kind of moved it into your existing class structure. You didn't… you don't have a completely separate program, right?
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Paul Markhauser: No, that's right. We kind of pepper it throughout the week,
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Paul Markhauser: Like, we'll have two… two days a week of our regular program, our train class, we call it, our strength and conditioning class.
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Paul Markhauser: Will be more…
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Paul Markhauser: I call it Hyroxy than the rest of the weeks, whereas, like, a typical week will involve, like, you know, your strength piece, and then you'll go into a workout that's usually between, like, 10 and 20 minutes.
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Paul Markhauser: That's… those are traditional classes, but then some days you're coming in and it's like a 40-minute…
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Paul Markhauser: workout that's more higher oxy than the rest of the week. And then we…
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Paul Markhauser: we introduced the Saturday, we call it the High Rocks Prep class.
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Paul Markhauser: We're getting prepped for the race that's coming up.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Okay.
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Paul Markhauser: in our… in the closest city to us, where we have, like, I think we have, like, 20 to 30 people signed up for that.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Okay, so, and Brad, Paul, correct me if I have a misunderstanding of what's going on. Actually, Paul, do you guys have a separate membership
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: for your HROX classes, it's all looped into one, but do people know which classes are going to be more Hyroxy, and do you have people that specifically signed up to… I'm gonna start using that as a verb, by the way. Hey, let's go be more Hy-ROXY. But did you have people that specifically signed up to do that style of training as a result?
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Paul Markhauser: So we offer yoga, pilates, glute and abs, women's only classes, and our strength and conditioning class, and we have one lifting class a week. So, like, it's kind of a membership where it's all in, like, you could go to different classes, and we have some people who do every single
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Paul Markhauser: type of class. So we don't really separate it in that sense, but to answer your question, yeah, the people who came in to do, like, the higher rocks
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Paul Markhauser: style classes on the… on this specific High Rocks day. Those would tend to be, like, punch card users, because they're only coming in once a week. But that being said.
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Paul Markhauser: there is some people who target those types of classes, and they'll know ahead of time, because we do release the programming, at the start of the week. Nice. So, and we publish it through the PushPress app, through Train. So they'll see the workouts, and if it's a High Rocks type of day, then they'll show up to those days.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: like that. Brad, for you guys.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: did you see a surge in membership at all from… from people looking to do specifically High Rocks events? Like, would people come in, they're like, hey, I want to prep for that race that's 8 weeks out, so that's why I'm going to start with your 8-week program or 6-week program? Or do you typically have members that are doing your CrossFit kind of switch over and ad…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: add the HIROX membership or HIROX program to their current membership? What do you see more of?
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Brad Raysby: So there's definitely a tipping point that happened within the last year. To start out, we did not receive leads or anything funneled directly from HIROX, even though you're present on their website as an affiliate.
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Brad Raysby: But that was early on, so it was more so through referral-based or members who had friends who were interested in endurance-type events that wanted to come train with us on a punch card or for these specialty programs. As we…
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Brad Raysby: continue to increase, just organic leads. We have never paid. We post on our socials, we're present within the HIROX funnel off their website, and then we do include our HIROX classes on a ClassPass.
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Brad Raysby: Which, if you guys are familiar with that model or another company similar, I will say, over everything else we've done with them, Hyrox does have a conversion rate. We've had people convert from ClassPass to punch cards all the way to annual prepays.
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Brad Raysby: So…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Wow.
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Brad Raysby: It is a… it is a good funnel there. But I will say that over the last year, specifically, we hosted the High Rocks World Championships in Chicago in June of, 25.
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Brad Raysby: And, after that, it was… we couldn't turn it off if we wanted to. We were getting 70% of our organic leads were people mentioning High Rocks, training for a High Rocks race.
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Brad Raysby: you know, their friend was gonna travel here from another country or city to race with them in Chicago in November, and they wanted to train. And so what we did at that point in time is we added a Friday evening 90-minute hybrid endurance class. Each of those classes started off with roughly a 30-40 minute aqua bike workout, so…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Day and out.
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Brad Raysby: You would love that.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Absolutely not. Are you kidding me?
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Who signs up for that stuff, guys?
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Brad Raysby: half of those, the second half of those classes, included more race…
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Brad Raysby: specific… we wouldn't say simulations, but more race tempo, and we get into programming, that'll be present there. People love those, but what it allowed us to do is to have members travel to us from 40 minutes, an hour away on the weekends that couldn't train with us during the weekdays, and they wanted to come for our High Rocks weekends. They would come Friday evening, they'd come back Saturday at some point, they'd come back Sunday at some point, and they were training with us 3 days a week.
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Brad Raysby: And we created a special membership for that app.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: I want to highlight something.
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Brad Raysby: Oh, yeah, right.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: for the people that are listening, for the business owners that are listening, Brad, you mentioned that we couldn't turn the funnel off if we wanted to, and that you had an extremely high conversion rate, and I do want to make it perfectly clear for everybody.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Do not confuse Brad's structure of the funnel with their sales process.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: So, listening to you speak, Brad, I have a… I have… I would have a high amount of confidence that your team, either you or the people that are talking to the people coming in, you guys can sell.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: So, like, even when you're talking about the offer.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Like, hey, we have this one 90-minute block, like, the offer has to be appropriate for the people that are coming to your gyms, and you have to be able to
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: conveyed the value, which is sales, right? So, Brad, it sounds to me like one of the major underpinnings of your program's success is that you guys have a very appropriate offer, and you know how to convey its value to the people that are walking in from
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: the fact that High Rocks is blowing up. So, anybody that's listening, I don't want you to have some misconceptions where you can just turn on the magic funnel, the magic waterfall, the magic spout that is the High Rocks brand, and expect to do what Brad and Paul are doing. Make sure you guys are able to speak to your offer.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Brad, that's phenomenal stuff, and this plays into the market that we were talking about earlier. Whether or not you have an urban market or.
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Brad Raysby: But I will say…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Go for it, Brad.
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Brad Raysby: Go ahead, Derek. Go ahead.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Well, I was just going to talk about the strategy that might need to change. Your ability to sell your offer might need to change based off of the people that you're serving in your market, whether or not you're urban or suburban, which you seem to be more of, Brad, in Northbrook, versus a rural or mid-sized or spread-out market that Paul is in.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: I… tell me if I'm wrong.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Paul, in the rural market, the mid-size, spread-out market.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: You probably don't want to niche down. You probably don't want to develop a program that's specific to High Rocks. You want to integrate into your current offering because it allows more flexibility for people that value that, whereas
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Is that correct, Paul? I mean, is that a…
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Paul Markhauser: 100%, yeah.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: And then, Brad, you're in such a dense market, like, you have people traveling in to do these events, you're in such a dense market that you can afford to have a standalone program, and the margins are still going to be considerable.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Is that fair?
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Brad Raysby: Yeah, yeah, and there's obviously a lot more to be said on any of those fronts. And I'll just kind of give you an example to say.
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Brad Raysby: Our participation in terms of race sign-ups has basically doubled every year.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: We'll have.
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Brad Raysby: We've had more people this year travel outside our market to compete in High Rocks than competed in our first full year as an affiliate locally. So, I mean, we've had members travel internationally to England, Italy, Mexico, Canada, all across the U.S, every city that's closer to race, from New York to Miami, Houston, Dallas, LA, Anaheim, and now there's new markets. We don't currently
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Brad Raysby: We have a Chicago race on the calendar for the calendar year of 2026.
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Brad Raysby: But we should have a race in the spring, hopefully, for this season. And I imagine that's because they are requiring
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Brad Raysby: more event time on site, and they're gonna… I don't know for a fact, but I'm guessing that they're gonna add a second weekend like they did with New York. We'll see. But what I'll say is…
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Brad Raysby: Outside of that, we have members right now that are planning to go to Japan, India, like, Denver, Nashville, Salt Lake City, these are all new markets for High Rocks. We have members that will travel there, either to go with friends.
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Brad Raysby: Up to Boston. We got people going up there coming up soon in May. So, yeah, a lot of different things, and all I want to say is, like, that's not our doing. That is the High Rocks ecosystem feeding that to us. You know, all we can do is supply
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Brad Raysby: the program and the coaching on-site, and the encouragement for people to step out and test themselves. And…
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Brad Raysby: It's… it's really incredible. It truly is.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Yeah, let HIROX do all the marketing and get all the hype built up. You just gotta provide an offer and convenience for prepping for the event that HIROX is already marketing, right? So, if someone wants to launch a program, is it… is it this simple? This is…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: This is where I think a lot of people might overthink
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: getting started. Brad, your first high… I think you said your first, 6- or 8-week program was 12 people?
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Is that what you said?
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Brad Raysby: The first one was 12. We had just signed up in September, the race was in November, and we had, 12 people sign up for a 6-week program without even knowing, really, what HyRocks was, just that they knew it sounded interesting.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: I love that. So, Paul, did you got something?
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Paul Markhauser: Yeah, I just want to touch on that last point there with the market. I think understanding your market's super important, and I think…
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Paul Markhauser: Anybody who's in, like, a major city.
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Paul Markhauser: like, I've traveled to Buenos Aires, London, New York, like, major, major cities, yeah, your urban focus, you could afford to go all-in on High Rocks, like, call it whatever, like.
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Paul Markhauser: fully push high rocks, and that's the only thing you offer, and we're starting to see that a lot more. Similar to the CrossFit gyms when they were… when they were popping up in major cities, like, go all in on it. You'll get… there's enough population there, enough people that are, like, High Rocks specific, that'll fill your gym.
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Paul Markhauser: Whereas when you're looking at, like, a rural area, or, you know, a mid-size strategy, you kind of have to be that one-stop shop where you're attracting people in for, you know, yoga, or they're interested in Pilates, and they're interested in doing a couple different things.
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Paul Markhauser: You have a much less population, so you're trying to captivate on a larger percentage, versus in a major city, you could focus and, you know, you could only…
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Paul Markhauser: Bring in 1% of your population, that's great, you're gonna bring them all in, whereas a rural area, if you capitalize on, like, 5%, you'll have the same amount of members, but you need to offer a wider range of
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Paul Markhauser: Of, of services.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: it sounds like gym owners need to be able to commit to one of those two tactics in order to optimize. And hopefully,
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: you know, they're sitting there, they're listening to this, and they're already starting to learn where they're at, and what tactic might be… what strategy, excuse me, would be more appropriate for their market. Yeah, that was simply stated. I like that, Paul. That was great.
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Brad Raysby: If I could add to that, too, just to say that, you know, we are now in a push where we have
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Brad Raysby: athletes coming to us, multi-sport athletes, triathletes, whatever the case may be, that are using HIROX training to cross-train for their events. So, we are now beyond people just signing up to train for HIROX events.
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Brad Raysby: We have people, since this year, adding HIROCs 7 days a week to our class schedule. We have people that are training High Rocks classes with us.
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Brad Raysby: to train for events outside of High Rocks.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Yeah, and I think as our consumers become more educated and intelligent surrounding training, maybe general fitness adaptation, you'll probably see something like that.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That's a good insight on that, Brad. Brad, if we were to distill starting a program or launching.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: excuse me, launching a HIROX program. If we were to distill it down simply, is this a framework that you feel like, if executed well, and you know, you pay attention to the details at each step, this could be a great jump-off
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: spot. Basically, if you just find… if you want to start as a program or event-anchored
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: High Rocks program, you find a race, you make it public, put names on the whiteboard for the people that have registered for the race, you build a prep course or a program, you know, it's 6, 8 weeks out, hey, we're gonna start our training on X, and we're going to
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: peak for the event that we've all agreed to start at. And if you start with a group of 8, 10, or even less, do you think
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: That's a solid starting point from which you will learn how to build from.
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Brad Raysby: Yes, absolutely, because it's just a seed, and people get excited, they share their experience like anything else, like any gym has started grassroots.
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Brad Raysby: You know, and how much we refer on our member base, to help us sustain ourselves.
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Brad Raysby: it's interesting, the progression we've used for our specialty program side-by-side with what we've done with growing it on the schedule and from a programming perspective. I'll just tell you, like, this last one leading up to November of 25, we did a 10-week, and it was…
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Brad Raysby: you know, we named it Road to Navy Pier, right? Because that's where our event was, in Chicago, Navy Pier. And that alone, just the idea of
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Brad Raysby: of the name of the program, got people really excited, and we added in an additional element that we hadn't done previously. At least not as a group training session, we did compromised running sessions. So instead of just coaching
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Brad Raysby: on Sunday afternoons, one of the eight stations, and doing a time trial for that station, which we've done in the past, we instead coached the movement and included that in a compromised running workout, where it was an extended running intervals mixed with intervals of the movement of the day.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: I love that, because now we're getting into the programming question, and Paul, I know you and I have had some… some awesome conversations surrounding programming, and I'm… I'm interested to hear… and Brad, you have a phenomenal
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: rotation and slash structure that's going on. Paul, do you use HIROX360 that's provided from
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: You don't, so you do… you guys do your own programming in-house, and so how did you decide what to focus on with the programming, how you integrate it, how you convey the value to your members? What… what do you, what do you… what advice do you give to gym owners who are trying to figure out how to best structure that?
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Paul Markhauser: the programming itself.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Yeah.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Execute on the classes.
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Paul Markhauser: Yeah, it's a good question, because we function a little bit differently. We're less…
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Paul Markhauser: program and structure-oriented. I think that we kind of take that model where it's like, as long as people are showing up, they're working out, they're sweating, they're gonna go home happy, they're having fun with their friends, that's what's gonna keep them in the gym. And on a general level, we're making them all a little bit better. Some of them are a lot better, like, it's just… the idea is we don't put so much stress and energy
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Paul Markhauser: emphasis on the program itself. It's more just like, come in, sweat, you're gonna get better no matter what, so…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: You put emphasis on the… Experience.
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Paul Markhauser: experience. It's all about the vibe when you come in, like, hanging out.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Talk about that. How, like, because I've… I look at what Chelsea has done, and I'm like, I… the programming is less about the physical adaptation, and more about what the member feels like they're getting out of the session.
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Paul Markhauser: Yeah.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: the experience that they have. So you, what have you cultivated about the High Rocks workouts at your gym? What do you focus on? What do you tell your trainers and coaches to focus on in order to make sure that that vibe happens?
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Paul Markhauser: Well, it's also pretty interesting, because some people are doing that High Rocks class, not necessarily do a race, but just to work out. Then you have those other individuals that are there to actually, like, they're planning for a race that's upcoming, which is great, because they also have the accountability of them and their partner. Like, they're gonna come together every week, and work out together every week.
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Paul Markhauser: But the emphasis that we put on, like, the High Rock side of things is more… like, the programming itself is just, you know, we'll bring everybody in, we'll… every class that we do, we'll focus on, like, one specific part of the race, and, like, that's what your focus is on that week.
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Paul Markhauser: On that specific class, so let's say it's, like, your transitions on the… on the sandbags, or your transitions on the ski, or, like, focusing that class, like, hey, today, guys, we're gonna focus on, like, the right technique for your ski, and how you guys are gonna split it up during the race. So each week is kind of focused that way, but…
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Paul Markhauser: it's not super… I wouldn't say it's super structured, in a sense where it's like, hey, we've planned this out for, like, 4, 6 weeks, like, we know what we've done, and we'll build a workout around that.
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Paul Markhauser: And in general, I'd say our athletes are pretty strong, especially in the high rock side of things.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: I love that, and what we're gonna hear from Brad… Brad, go through your rotation. So, I love the fact that we have different approaches to this program, because the program appeals to different people for different reasons. Now, Brad, you have a
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: is… if I… correct me if I'm wrong, a 5-track rotation? I think that's what I wrote there, so I'm hoping I'm right.
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Brad Raysby: Currently, currently we do, and I think of it as a continuum.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Okay.
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Brad Raysby: Where… right until you have High Rock's race.
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Brad Raysby: And some of these general concepts came from some previous iterations before HIROX365 existed, which I will say is a robust program. You could follow it, and they have unique 13-week programs, they have running-only programs, they have interval-only programs, so there's a lot of different stuff on there that we don't…
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Brad Raysby: typically use in our day-to-day. But it is excellent, it's a good resource, if nothing else.
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Brad Raysby: And it's a good pulse to see where the High Rocks training team themselves are taking you. Lots of coaching education there as well. But what I'll say is, for us, that what we've developed over time is, in 2023, coming out of that second race.
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Brad Raysby: We added… we have 3 weekend classes, Saturday and 3 Sunday, 7.15, 8.30, 9.45.
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Brad Raysby: We took one of those three and made it a HIROX class. So that's where we anchored in. It was the busiest of the weekend classes, and we wanted to, for lack of a better term, force our members
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Brad Raysby: to experience that, and know that it wasn't very different than what they were doing, but it was different enough.
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Brad Raysby: We rode that for the entirety of the year, and then going into 2024, we replaced our entire weekend with a High Rocks weekend model.
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Brad Raysby: So this meant that we were no longer having anything but high rocks on the weekend, but we were not having high rocks during the week. So if we had Endure, which is more…
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Brad Raysby: Cardiorespiratory endurance, muscular stamina, and core durability.
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Brad Raysby: More, I think, extended work time with little to no rest built in. And then we had our HIROCs as, you know, our skill-based strength and conditioning program. Those were complementative of each other, and we viewed HIROCs, our weekend training, to be more of a hybrid of the two.
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Brad Raysby: And so what happened was, of course, there was a lot of pushback, but we leaned in hard.
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Brad Raysby: We did not have a workout of the day, we had 3 different High Rocks workouts Saturday, 3 different High Rocks workouts Sunday. All 6 workouts were unique.
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Brad Raysby: But they followed a flow, 5 different formats. So, on one end, you have High Rock Strong, which is strength-based. It is a sets and reps, oftentimes barbell-focused class.
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Brad Raysby: And then, move the needle a little bit, we have High Rocks Total, which is more muscular stamina focused, where we're using a lot of our toys, the medicine balls, kettlebells.
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Brad Raysby: Dumbbells, sandbags, and the like, sleds, whatever it may be. In the middle, we have High Rocks Race. This is not race simulation, it's more tempo-based work.
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Brad Raysby: And then as we move over to the other side, we have a HIROX interval class. This is not just Tabata-style short-based intervals, we're talking longer intervals and repeat on rest.
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Brad Raysby: This would be more focused, if you think, in a threshold capacity, where we're really amping people up and bringing them to, you know, to where they're gonna feel it that day and the next day.
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Brad Raysby: Not all of it is, of course, high intensity. And then on the far, far other side is our High Rocks capacity class, which I would say is most, like, aerobic capacity, right? Where we're really building their base.
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Brad Raysby: to go longer, because most people are going to be out on that course for 90 minutes, give or take, some of them 2 hours. Not very many of your members are going to go hit a sub-60 high rocks, unless they are quitting their job and training for that, you know?
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: subsidi Isn't that, like, a world-class time? Isn't that, like…
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Brad Raysby: And that's what I'm saying, if our classes are an hour, and we're gonna warm up appropriately and go through skills, like, they might get 40 minutes of…
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Brad Raysby: of time, and that's where our program allows people to double up and go to back-to-back classes and have two different, training pieces within a single day with appropriate rest and balance. And now what we've done this year is we've gone Monday through Friday, we have an AM and a PM High Rocks, but we're taking our weekend programming, and then we are skipping a week, and the following week, those same
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Brad Raysby: Workouts are present Monday through Friday as workouts today.
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Brad Raysby: So, what we did this last Saturday at 7.15 will be present next Monday, 9 days.
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Brad Raysby: As the workout of the day. And it gives people that don't come on the weekend a chance to do the same workouts, or people that wanted another shot at it to try a different strategy, or a different training intensity, it gives them a chance to double down on something like that, and it's worked beautifully to this point.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: So.
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Brad Raysby: Really, really excellent.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: what I want our listeners and the people that are watching this, what I want them to understand is you have
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: You have Brad, who has an incredibly… it's not incredibly intricate, but it is robust, it is relatively comprehensive, and it obviously is detailed and well thought out. And then you have…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Paul, who prioritizes the experience, and his… it's more about how the athletes are feeling when they get through. And what you would notice if you went to a High Rocks event is that you have very similar people doing those events, where people… there are… there is a large contingency of people that are there for the experience, and the vibe, and the actual
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: fun of the event, and then you have people that are there because of the fitness aspect, where it's like, hey, I wanna know what my split times are.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: I'm looking to push performance, and I'm not saying that they're trying to compete on any elite level, but those things hold a higher importance to them, and then you're gonna have a spectrum of people in between.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: What you should be realizing as a gym owner, when you hear these two powerhouses talk.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: is that regardless of which end of the spectrum you're on, both of them have high levels of conviction in the program itself, and the reason they're doing it. And that is what is, in my opinion, from listening from both of you guys, that is what
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: lays the foundation for your programs to be successful, because this is the one thing, when I talk to you guys independently, this is the one thing that both of you guys agreed on.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Coach buy-in is essential for the program's success.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Like, if you do not have… if you do not have buy-in from your team, from your staff, that is running these classes or running the programs.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: it's… it's a matter of time before it plateaus or just collapses. So, Paul, how did you… how did you create buy-in with your team? And Brad, I'm gonna ask you a similar question, but Paul, I want to know, what did you do specifically to get Chelsea Athletica involved?
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Paul Markhauser: Yeah, that's a great question. We were looking to affiliate, to High Rocks, but it was just like, when do we want to launch it? So last year, we had a race in Toronto, which is about
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Paul Markhauser: 3-4 hours away from where we're at. We essentially paid for all of our coaches, or whoever wanted to be a part of it, to go to that event. We documented it, we, you know, had
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Paul Markhauser: We took photos, we took the photos from High Rocks, we took videos, so that was kind of, like, the launch point. And when we came back, we had all that content that we were sharing, within the gym, so it built the excitement around it. And, like, we told our coaches, like, this is gonna be, like, a company trip. Like, well, we'll pay for the Airbnb, we'll pay for the… for the,
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Paul Markhauser: For the food and the whole weekend, like, it's a good…
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Paul Markhauser: team-building experience for everybody, but it's a good launch point for everybody as well. There's like, hey, everybody's got the buy-in, everybody looks up to the coaches, so, the same way, like, when I was an athlete, I was always looking up to the coaches. Whatever they said or did, I was doing the same thing, so…
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Paul Markhauser: Yeah, it was great. We did that in Toronto, and then when we came back, we launched it the very next week, and we got an extreme amount of buy-in from the members.
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Paul Markhauser: And it continues that way as well, like, we'll have coaches joining in with members if they need a partner for the future races. So we're probably going to continue doing that.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: So did you go… that's actually a really cool tactic, I like that. You used it as, like, a team-building, like, event for your staff, but did I hear… like, you didn't go into the team-building event, into the High Rocks
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: thinking you were gonna launch your program, or was that something that had been kicking around in your head previously? You guys were like, hey, we're gonna go do this, and if we like it, then we'll launch it? And then at the end, you guys were all like, yeah, we like it? Is that kind of how it went?
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Paul Markhauser: No, we knew we were gonna launch it, and they were just like, hey, we got an event, like, let's pair it up with this event that we're gonna go to, let's get all the content and the hype around it, and let's come home and launch it hard, you know?
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Nice.
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Paul Markhauser: I think IROX does this very, very well, it's just, like, the social proof that they have, the ability for people to take photos, they repost their photos, and that's what… that's… and just like Brad, we don't pay for advertising, we… we… we just…
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Paul Markhauser: Post on socials, we tag them, and then they're social proofing it across all their network.
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Paul Markhauser: So, for our coaches to do it first, and next thing you know, next class, everybody… we get a photographer in there, we may pay the photographer $500 to $1,000, but it's well worth it, because they're… they're taking photos of our athletes in the class, and then all of a sudden, that's just spreading like wildfire across all the social media, and it's trusted across their networks, so… Yep. Yeah, that's kind of the… we took a similar approach, but, like, I think so.
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Paul Markhauser: social proof is the number one thing, and I think we could…
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Paul Markhauser: I'll double down on that, like, social proof from your coaches, and they're posting on their Instagrams, they're advertising it for you. It's gonna spread like wildfire throughout your gym, and everybody's gonna start coming to classes.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: I love that. Brad, if there was… if you could narrow it down to one, maybe two things that you did as an owner, that you specifically did as an owner, to develop the coach buy-in, or develop buy-in from your coaching staff, what would you think it was? What would you say it was?
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Brad Raysby: I mean, I did it first, so with that first group, way back, it was actually interesting, they had a partnership with Go Rock, so the first High Rocks I did was with a weighted vest on. It wasn't fast, but it was different.
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Brad Raysby: And, that was unique. It's a unique talking point for prospective members, and also with your coaches, who,
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Brad Raysby: you know, a lot of them starting out, as personal trainers or CrossFit coaches, when your members
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Brad Raysby: Look at that, it's like, okay, that's another level, but when you can get your coaches to participate.
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Brad Raysby: the members… it's more community-driven. They're like, I'm gonna be out there with my coach. Not competing against them, but competing with them, you know? I think that's a huge thing to encourage, and this last year, we had full buy-in from our team.
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Brad Raysby: We have a good-sized team, 8 coaches, so everybody has raised high rocks at this point, and maybe one of the holdouts, and not in a hard, blind sense, but we have a coach who's 16 years my junior, and in order to get him to go out and do it, I…
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Brad Raysby: did it with him. So we did it as a partner, a doubles, and that was really fun and challenging for me, and for him, it was kind of a… a fun opportunity just for us to train and go out together, so…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: That's… that's really cool, actually. I love that line. I would want to steal that line, like, hey, you're not competing against or watching, you're competing alongside, you're competing with your coach, or you're participating with your coach.
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Brad Raysby: I would say, too, from a member perspective, there is going to be a lot of, not pushback on, like, I don't want to do that, but the I can't do that, or I don't believe, like, I could go that long. It's too much running, and that's where, when you get the other opportunities to do the doubles, it's like, hey.
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Brad Raysby: Find some of the running pace, you gotta split the stations, which is gonna allow you to maintain that running pace. That is a really fun way to do it. And then even on the far side, Zach, you and I had talked about this, is the idea that
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Brad Raysby: People look at the relay as a buy-in opportunity. Someone who can't run that much, or would choose not to, or doesn't want to participate with the heavier objects or stations, can simply do a run.
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Brad Raysby: and ski. And then their second station could be run and row, right? As a base level. I'd like to see four of our coaches go out and sprint these 1Ks and just hammer down and see what the fastest time they can do on a relay. So there's different ways to play each one. Again, with the relay, we've seen at the event
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Brad Raysby: Weight loss clubs use that as a final piece to their program, where you have people who have extreme weight loss goals.
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Brad Raysby: Walking.
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Brad Raysby: the one kilometer, completing their station as… to the best of their ability, and getting cheered on the entire time by not only their relay mates, but their entire gym community is there, and the High Rocks volunteers.
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Brad Raysby: they'll… they'll come up for, for anybody who's struggling and really help lift them through the event, so…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: That's, like, their graduation moment. That's their… that's their win, that's their, like, the peak, or the pinnacle of their, like you said, their weight loss program.
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Brad Raysby: Yeah, and all in the sense of… obviously, you have the Elite 15s, and we can talk about stuff like that, and the experience just, you know,
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Brad Raysby: working in and around those people, but what I'll say is that…
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Brad Raysby: if anybody wants proof, and I used to say this about CrossFit, I'm sure, Zach, you remember Kyle Menard, you know, it's like…
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Brad Raysby: If you want to do it, you can, but it has to be a decision you make. Anyone can do it, it can benefit anybody, and the same with High Rocks, I would say, if you go out and watch.
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Brad Raysby: the Adaptive High Rocks event from the World Championships this year, it's on their social media, you will find it.
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Brad Raysby: I hold you to do that, and not find a reason to go out and do it yourself.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Yeah, it's…
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Brad Raysby: Cheese.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: It's.
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Brad Raysby: And maybe something else that we haven't really touched…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Firing thing.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Go for it, Brad.
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Brad Raysby: Yeah, for sure. Just in the sense of… because I know we're privileged to have events nearby, and our members, as I said, have been traveling for these, so… but I wouldn't expect, you know, everybody's community to want to do that without having the initial experience. You can host this stuff in your gym.
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Brad Raysby: They are creating more and more opportunities. This year, they came out with 4 different challenges, like benchmarks that you could have your members do. So you can host High Rocks Challenge Days in your gym, you can host PFTs, there is a new app coming out, that is going to have a High Rocks
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Brad Raysby: Test, where it's gonna give you a standardized score, a single number score, and that's an easy way for things that people can utilize to draw people into their gym and train for something that they're gonna hold within their four walls.
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Brad Raysby: Doesn't have to be complicated, but it can be very productive and rewarding for both the participants, the coaches, the gym community, and, of course, gym owners, so…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: I like it. Now you're talking about, and I switched to the next slide, those are all tools that HIROX has put out to grow your program.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: I want to talk about things, briefly, that are outside those specific tools, although everybody should leverage them, because one, they're accessible to any HIROX affiliate, and two, they are…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: almost quite, quite realistically, plug-and-play options. But accountability is something that, I think a lot of members
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: look for when they sign up at a given gym, and your… your, whiteboard that has all the names of the people that are signed up for a given event, I think that's probably one of the most simple and powerful
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: tools.
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Brad Raysby: I mean, exactly.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Is that it behind you? Yeah.
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Brad Raysby: Yeah.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: I think having something front and center like that to highlight everybody that walks in through the door, I think keeping it front of mind when you are in the physical space is incredibly powerful to getting new people
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: to sign up for that program. And it probably plays into the, 70% of new members that you were talking about. Like, you, you do the vast majority. Paul, do you also do, the vast majority of your program growth through referrals, through people that are, like, currently doing the program, then they just bring in friends to do it with them?
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Paul Markhauser: Exactly, yeah. I would say a large majority… well, yeah, probably about 70% of our members were already members, but then you see the extra 30% that are just bringing people in. Yeah, for that specific reason. I like that.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Yeah. So, I think… and then, Brad, you were talking about having specific goals, especially with what you were just talking about, for the race. Be like, hey, I know you think it's too hard, but what if you do a relay version? Let's… let's baby step this. Let's set a small, incremental milestones that you can work on achieving over time. That keeps people motivated, keeps people accountable, and keeps people coming back, because the last thing someone wants to do… no, maybe not the exact
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: exact last thing, but one of the last things that someone wants to do is say that they're going to do something, and then not do it. Anyway, most of our members feel like that. I do want to touch, both of you talked about a weekend membership, or Paul, did you say that you had a weekend class or something that you started just on the weekends? Brad, I know you did.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: But… Did you do something specifically for the weekend classes, Paul, or did I misunderstand?
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Paul Markhauser: No, well, we just added an extra class. We replaced one of our existing classes with a High Rock-specific class. And as we get closer to the event, we're gonna likely go to a local track, and, you know, they'll have, like, a full track outdoors, and be able to run on the track, and sled push, sled pull, like, probably run somewhat of a… an in-house sim, that we could get our members prepped for, so that they're not
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Paul Markhauser: But, especially for those people who've done it for the first time, that they can kind of understand what they're walking into, and be able to pace themselves for the actual race.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Perfect, I like that. And so, the final thing that you guys both spoke to that I did not put on this, and I'm an idiot for not putting this up, the number one way to grow your program is the social proof.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Take pictures of your people at the events, and doing the training, and plaster it all over social media. Paul, real quick, how many… for every 10 posts that go up on Chelsea Athletica, how many of them are of High Roxy workouts? For every 10 that you… posts that you make, would you say.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Or, how many would you say?
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Paul Markhauser: Yeah, I would say, like, 3. 3 out of the 10, like, 30%, probably a good, good call, yeah.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Alright, Brad, how about you?
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Brad Raysby: I mean, as we build up to events, more present.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Wow.
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Brad Raysby: It's not a… it's not a… a prominent part of our social feed. It's part of our, I guess, a web, like, we have it scheduled out, just like you would with good programming. Like, it's present enough to… to keep people's attention, but it's not in their face.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: I love it. I love it. That's awesome.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Rogue, I keep saying real quick, I think that's, like, my filler word, I just identified.
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Brad Raysby: I'm close.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Guys, real quick, right? What gyms often misunderstand is that there are a few things that you could miss
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: or not do, right? And really fall flat on your face here. One, if you do not have
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: the authenticity or the coach buy-in. If you do not have your staff or your team that are running these classes or running these programs, if they don't believe in it, your members aren't gonna believe in it, it's gonna fall flat.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Two, waiting for it to be the right time, or the perfect time. I don't think Paul nor Brad, again, correct me if I'm wrong here, guys, you guys didn't start
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: with what you guys currently have. You reiterated as you learned what was better for your members and what got… what was better for your gym and your culture and your community. So, it would almost be better to start sooner rather than later with an imperfect plan, and then just continuously look to make it better.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Equipment. Paul, you did mention that you had to buy some stuff. Did you… did that prevent you from starting in the first place? Like, what type of equipment would you call… would you consider essential?
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Paul Markhauser: Well, we're up in Canada, so, like, there's 8 months of the year you can't run.
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Paul Markhauser: Yes, you have all the runners, so you're substituting with, you know, bikes and C2 bikes and stuff like that.
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Paul Markhauser: I would say everything's pretty essential, unless your space doesn't allow for it, so we don't have…
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Paul Markhauser: necessarily a large enough space for, you know, turf and sleds.
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Paul Markhauser: We have everything else, though. You get the sandbags, the… the wall balls, so we were… we were buying that equipment as we were coming close to launching the High Rocks program. Cool. I think you could always get away with…
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Paul Markhauser: without the turf and the sleds, but it's better if you have it. And then if you're in…
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Paul Markhauser: Canada, where it's snowing. I mean, Chicago's pretty similar, too, but, you know, having those runners would be… would be nice, but I wouldn't… I wouldn't overbuy them. Like, you could always… the nice thing, and you gotta think about occupational capacity in the space that you have, is, like, if you're gonna run a high rocks race, not everybody has to start at the same station, as long as they're going through all the stations, and they just all start at different stations. We get away with having six skiers, 6
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Paul Markhauser: And, you know, a handful of sandbags, but everybody gets the same type of workout. They just may not start all at the same spot, but they just share equipment throughout the workout.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: I think that's great. I think creativity and programming would… is more important than having all the
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: the equipment that you would ever need. I think if you have creative programming, you can get, the… all the fitness that you would need to do well in a High Rocks and make these fun classes. Brad, I don't know if you agree, but, like, the way that you program, if you didn't have a… if you didn't have sleds, or if you didn't have skis, or if you didn't skiergs, or if you didn't have
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: you know, one piece of equipment, would it make or break your programming? Probably not.
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Brad Raysby: Not in the sense, like, I mean, if I go way back 20 years, so, you know, we started…
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Brad Raysby: first CrossFit affiliate for myself. I mean, we had 600 square feet inside another gym, and we would coach 16 people in that. So, you get creative. Good coaches are gonna make people feel
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Brad Raysby: That they got their value out of it. But of course, it is to our advantage to have the space and equipment that we have now. You know, that's a whole other story, how we got to that point, how much hard work and sacrifice and good decisions and limiting, you know, maybe the fails we made, but…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: I've been around for a long time, so I'm sure there's a huge lessons learned that you have. Especially, I'd be interested in hearing the good old days, like the 2000… when did you guys open? 2000…
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Brad Raysby: So, I've been doing this 20 years. Yeah. But our… the first affiliate, CrossFit-wise, 600 square feet. We have 10,000 square feet now. We've had as many as 3 gyms at one time before COVID.
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Brad Raysby: So there's a lot of different iterations to what we've done program-wise, not just with this stuff, but what I'll say specifically to Paul's point is the HIROCs.
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Brad Raysby: branded equipment is the last thing we've added in this year, and not enough for a class. We have the center equipment, just enough for…
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Brad Raysby: Those people that are going to travel, they want to try to podium, they want to be able to come in, they're individualized training members, they train on the weekend on their own, they want the official equipment to be able to have the feel of it.
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Brad Raysby: So we didn't do that until this year. So literally year four, almost to the halfway point of year four for us as a High Rocks affiliate before we actually added any of the, official equipment. Now, we've had med balls, sleds.
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Brad Raysby: Certainly, the skier, I think, is one thing that if people don't have, they should at least get one.
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Brad Raysby: Because you're going to want to be able to coach the technique, but you can just make it make sense. People are going to get great workouts, and it's all how… how you present it, how you coach it.
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Brad Raysby: how your members feed into it, how your coaches feed into it. Because it is, for us, even with a once-a-year race in Chicago, we have
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Brad Raysby: 51 other weekends a year that don't have high rocks in our general area, and we run a year-round program, so it makes sense, and it will continue to grow for us. So even though it started as that single event, that was the impetus for it for us. It has grown.
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Brad Raysby: on its own, and we just kept our finger on the pulse and make the right calls at the right time. I don't know that we've made any huge missteps or lagged behind in the decision-making. I feel like we've been fortunate enough to make the right calls at the right time. But… but yeah, I just say, lean into it. Do not…
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Brad Raysby: just place it in, like, a week-performing class, or as a lifeline for you. It's not gonna save you like that as a gym. You can make it become your new identity if you're looking to completely refocus, but if you're gonna add it in, make it be important to you and to your members so that it can actually grow.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: That's extremely important. Thank you for saying that. I think…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: if… if… I think if you guys are listening and you walk away with one thing, what Brad just said, I think is probably one of the more, insightful
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: pieces of advice that you're gonna hear from this webinar. Don't do it to plug a leaky class, or to be the band-aid on your business. If you're gonna do it, do it because… and make it important to you. I 100% agree with that, Brad. I think that's super intelligent, and I think that's smart. Paul, do you have anything to add to that?
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Paul Markhauser: No, I think more on the equipment side of things, I think CrossFit gyms probably have 90% of the equipment to start off a High Rocks program, so it's not like you're having to invest a lot of money,
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Paul Markhauser: And start it with what you have, and then if you feel like it's growing, like, go all in, get the turf, if you have the space for it, get the runners. I think Ken in the chat said, like, if you're a High Rocks affiliate, you could also get discounts, which is pretty nice. They have, like, a…
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Paul Markhauser: discounts on… on the center runners and… and concept twos, as Ken mentioned in the chat, so…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: That's awesome. I remember, someone was telling me a while ago, they were prepping for a High Rocks, they didn't have a skier, they took rings, they took their rings for the… they used for muscle-ups and dips, and they put them on bands with bungees, and they just did that against the ring, and I was like, that sounds way worse.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: God, just go get a skier at that point. Like, that sounds terrible. Paul, were there any questions in the, in the chat that we didn't address throughout the webinar, or anything that you wanted to hold to the end, or… I don't think I saw anything, but you had better eyes than I did.
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Paul Markhauser: No, I think Don just asked,
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Paul Markhauser: Do we call it specifically HIROX or another term? Just want to know if we could legally call it HIROX to promote our program. I think the affiliation's pretty key there, similar to CrossFit, so if you are going to promote it as High Rocks, make sure you're affiliated, because it could lead to some legal issues.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: if you want to call it a High Rocks program, or High Rocks Training Club, or High Rocks class, you need to be affiliated. You can, however, market that you are training to prepare for a High Rocks event, or a High Rocks race, if you… especially if you have a specific,
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: one that you've already signed up for. You can say that your training prepares you for HIROX, but you cannot say that you are a HIROX training or running HIROX classes or programs, or that you're a training club like that. That is…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: the neck of the woods belongs to affiliates on that. Brad, do you have anything to say on that? Did I miss anything legal-wise?
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Brad Raysby: It is protected usage, just like the CrossFit name, and they are leaning into having all your coaches that are coaching your HIROX classes be HIROX certified. They're making that easy to do, and it's online modules. It's actually… it's really informative.
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Brad Raysby: And they just had their Level 2 come out, they're having a Coaches Summit in England. I'm hoping they bring a Coaches Summit to the U.S. at some point in this next calendar year, but yeah, it's very good.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Very cool.
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Paul Markhauser: I think that answers Paige's question as well. Should coaches be IROX affiliate coaches? And Brad, I think he touched on that perfectly, so…
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Oh, isn't.
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Brad Raysby: charter now, it's not, to my knowledge, being 100% enforced, like, hard, but it is required as far as in your affiliate agreement now, the most recent one.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Very good.
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Paul Markhauser: I do have a question for you, Zach, before we jump off here. Sure. Are you shooting for a sub-60 in your next High Rocks race, or what?
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: I'm gonna do doubles with Nick. I have not looked at competitive times, but I think we're gonna do the one in Boston, in October, and all I know, I started training, what, like, last week? I'm already sick of the running.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: I'm already sick of the running, guys. I used to be a good runner, and then I start… I'm already sick of the running, no.
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Paul Markhauser: Seeming like a true CrossFitter there.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Yeah, no, I do need to get better at running, and I do appreciate having this event to prepare for and do more running, so I am… I'm stoked for that. Hey, Paul, Brad.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Thank you so much for sharing all this insight, and for chatting with us, and giving us the lowdown on different things that are gonna drive a successful High Rocks program. I really appreciate it. Everyone that wants to reach out to you, Paul, how would they find you? Brad, I'm gonna ask you here in a second. Paul, what's the best way if someone wants to contact you?
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Paul Markhauser: socials, I'm on Instagram, or…
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Paul Markhauser: Yeah, follow our Jim Instagram as well. We put out some good content there, you get some inspiration, feel free to copy anything you guys want.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Hell yeah, that's great.
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Paul Markhauser: Yeah, and then my email, paul.markhauser at pushpress.com, if you guys have any questions.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: I love it. Brad, if someone wants to get connected with you, or RallyPoint, or pick your brain about programming, what can they, how can they reach out?
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Brad Raysby: Yeah, for sure. First, thanks for everyone for coming on the call. There's no way we could cover everything in this time, but… Yeah. And for my excitability, as I told Zach, it's hard, I get amped up, so…
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Brad Raysby: Hopefully you guys look at that as encouragement. But yeah, you can reach me at brad at rallypointendeavors.com. Email me, feel free, any thoughts, questions. And then, of course, you can check out RallyPoint Endeavors on all the social medias, or if you're in the Chicago area.
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Brad Raysby: Stop in, you get about 20 miles north of the city in, Northbrook, Illinois.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Awesome, I appreciate that, guys. Stay tuned, you're gonna get a recording, if you're listening live, and you're also gonna get an invite for our next webinar, which is next Thursday, April 23rd. I'm working with Dave Kovar from Kovar Systems. We're gonna go over retention systems that don't cost you a lot of money and are super effective at making sure your members stick around
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: longer. So, with that being said, thank you again to everyone that came out, and I will talk to you guys next time.
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Zach Forrest, PushPress: Thanks, Paul. Thanks, Brad. See you later.
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Brad Raysby: Thank you, guys.
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